QPR and the European Super League

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Esox Lucius
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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by Esox Lucius » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:43 am

It will be interesting to see how JP Morgan deal with this debacle.
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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by Greyhound » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:05 am

The driver for this was the American vulture capital firm Elliott Management Corporation and their charming owner, Paul Singer. Singer now owns AC Milan, having bought their debt, and that's Elliott's business model (they've also bought the sovereign debt of Argentina and Peru, and I'm not talking about the national football teams). This is all about ownership, and no surprise that the Glazers, Abramovich/Putin, etc. were attracted to the trough of 'franchise sport', because this is about completing the process of stealing the game from fans to sell a new version of it it to huge markets in China, the Far East and the US.

Without some restrictions on club ownership in this country, the door remains open for this sort of thing to happen again.

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by dm » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:18 am

Greyhound wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:05 am
The driver for this was the American vulture capital firm Elliott Management Corporation and their charming owner, Paul Singer. Singer now owns AC Milan, having bought their debt, and that's Elliott's business model (they've also bought the sovereign debt of Argentina and Peru, and I'm not talking about the national football teams). This is all about ownership, and no surprise that the Glazers, Abramovich/Putin, etc. were attracted to the trough of 'franchise sport', because this is about completing the process of stealing the game from fans to sell a new version of it it to huge markets in China, the Far East and the US.

Without some restrictions on club ownership in this country, the door remains open for this sort of thing to happen again.
Very interesting. Please can you post a link to the media source for this info?

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by Esox Lucius » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:40 pm

Greyhound wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:05 am
The driver for this was the American vulture capital firm Elliott Management Corporation and their charming owner, Paul Singer. Singer now owns AC Milan, having bought their debt, and that's Elliott's business model (they've also bought the sovereign debt of Argentina and Peru, and I'm not talking about the national football teams). This is all about ownership, and no surprise that the Glazers, Abramovich/Putin, etc. were attracted to the trough of 'franchise sport', because this is about completing the process of stealing the game from fans to sell a new version of it it to huge markets in China, the Far East and the US.

Without some restrictions on club ownership in this country, the door remains open for this sort of thing to happen again.
It was widely reported, when the story broke, that JP Morgan were the money behind this ESL with their money up front being a loan to be repaid at 3% interest rate.
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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by Greyhound » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:32 pm

dm wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:18 am
Greyhound wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:05 am
The driver for this was the American vulture capital firm Elliott Management Corporation and their charming owner, Paul Singer. Singer now owns AC Milan, having bought their debt, and that's Elliott's business model (they've also bought the sovereign debt of Argentina and Peru, and I'm not talking about the national football teams). This is all about ownership, and no surprise that the Glazers, Abramovich/Putin, etc. were attracted to the trough of 'franchise sport', because this is about completing the process of stealing the game from fans to sell a new version of it it to huge markets in China, the Far East and the US.

Without some restrictions on club ownership in this country, the door remains open for this sort of thing to happen again.
Very interesting. Please can you post a link to the media source for this info?
Here's the interesting Singer side of this: https://twitter.com/tammigaw/status/1383935099461275648

It's obviously more than just one man, but this side of it was news to me. And it's troubling. I think we have just been forced to accept the completely horrendous situation football has got itself into with rogue owners, and it's nuts.

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by dm » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:13 pm

Thank you Greyhound and DroopSteetOld Boys for the links. It's sickening to see these hedge funds pulling the strings, even more so those who've been involved in the utterly immoral Vulture Funds.

If it's of any interest, I've contacted the Football Supporters Association to ask if they would lead a fans' campaign to get the Government to act on their promise of a review of football governance, and specifically the mandatory inclusion of supporters on club boards. That could be one measure to help stop these greedy barstewards from ruining football even more than they already have.

EDIT: Just seen there's a campaign already started by Andy Burnham, Mayor of Greater Manchester, and Steve Rotheram, Mayor of the Liverpool City Region https://reclaimourgame.com That's great but it might put some fans off if they perceive it being driven by Manchester and Liverpool?

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by Montag » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:38 pm

They will be back. It's on the back burner for now.
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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by Giorgio » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:08 pm

Montag wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:38 pm
They will be back. It's on the back burner for now.
....yes, especially if they go unscathed....

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:46 am

According to Perez, the clubs who have withdrawn signed a legally binding contract, don't expect this to be the end of it.

As for the competition (the Premier League) ... it's realistically a competition that only four teams can win (Leicester being the exception that proves the rule). Take away the COVID situation and every year the rich get richer. Will Everton, Southampton, Brighton, Burnley, Norwich, Watford, Newcastle or Tottenham win the title next season? Extremely unlikely. It will be one of United, City, Chelski or Liverpool. To join those elite four will take a lot of luck and a lot of money - which FFP will punish anyone for spending.

If you want a fairer competition, there has to be a closing of the gaps in football. The gap between the top four/six and the other 14/16, and the gap between the the Premier League and the Championship. Already two of the teams who were relegated last year have bounced straight back and Bournemouth may make it three out of three. While Fulham and WBA look doomed to relegation back to the Championship.

Sheffield United survived for one season.

The current set up favours the big boys and hamstrings the minnows. The European Super League is/was just a way of ensuring that is perpetuated.

I guess Mr Perez's view will be - see you in court.

We are well out of it.
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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by jimjams » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:04 am

I'm sure we haven't but Real's contract with Gareth Bale is binding too, but what are you going to do? Use a cattle prod?

If he's right that it's binding, he still can't force the clubs to take part. He can only extract some penalty for not doing so, which will probably end up in court.

But there is some question about whether taking part would have broken the players' contracts, which I think would probably complicate any case (& very easy for players to boost their profiles by refusing to play, etc).

Also, Sky said they weren't interested. Any ESL plan has to be based mostly on TV money, and if the pool of potential bidders was quite shallow, it might not have made financial sense, especially in the current economic climate. That might limit the amount of compensation that would be due. But on the other hand, might increase the chance of the ESL resurfacing if a better TV offer comes in.

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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:35 am

jimjams wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:04 am
I'm sure we haven't but Real's contract with Gareth Bale is binding too, but what are you going to do? Use a cattle prod?

If he's right that it's binding, he still can't force the clubs to take part. He can only extract some penalty for not doing so, which will probably end up in court.

But there is some question about whether taking part would have broken the players' contracts, which I think would probably complicate any case (& very easy for players to boost their profiles by refusing to play, etc).

Also, Sky said they weren't interested. Any ESL plan has to be based mostly on TV money, and if the pool of potential bidders was quite shallow, it might not have made financial sense, especially in the current economic climate. That might limit the amount of compensation that would be due. But on the other hand, might increase the chance of the ESL resurfacing if a better TV offer comes in.
When Sky lost the rights to the Champions League a few years ago, I'm sure they saw this as a disaster. However, it actually made little difference to their viewing figures, and on the whole - we the great unwashed viewing public weren't that bothered. So, it's easy to see why they wouldn't be interested. Who in this country cares if Roma V Sparta Prague is on the TV on a Wednesday night?

Sky's football coverage is heavily biased towards the big four/ six, but the reality is - more people watch teams that are not among that elite. It may well come down to the last game of the season in the Championship, who goes down Sheffield Wednesday or Derby? That is a lot more interesting than when Manchester City beat someone to win the Premiership in a couple of games time.
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Re: QPR and the European Super League

Post by jimjams » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:57 am

Exactly, TV companies might not be so fussed about this new format, which doesn't even have official recognition.
If they don't get a bumper TV deal, how is this going to be good for the teams' bottom lines?

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