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Don
dot.org legend
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 14005
Location: Devizes
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 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update, DSOB.
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deepseahoop
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 6091
Location: Peoples Republic of South Ruislip
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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anyone heard white noise by Stiff Little Fingers, banned by the BBC for being rascist but ironically not, just an offensive way of approaching the subject
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RLHOOP
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 6591
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | RLHOOP wrote: | Affirmative action will be the next thing to blow up in people's faces. It is bordering on a joke over here and lands people in roles where they are so far out of their depth it is detrimental to the process.
Why should any group get a better chance than another. Best candidate should be the one to get the role, position or place. Giving a minority an unfair advantage is just insulting them further by saying normally you wouldn't have got this but we have a quota to meet. |
There has never, ever, been a time when the best candidate for the role has got the job, the old boy network operates at all levels, when it was a old white boys club it just didn't get the publicity. Affermitive action for roles where race might be an issue is a good thing - Missispippi has something like a 36% black population and one black court judge and a prison population of 75%.
Mind you, we are suffereing here from a similar problem with affermitive selection. Our government is full of the Eton educated descendents of the Norman invaders, maybe centuries of breeding and privelege has made them the best candidates for the job, or maybe there is something else in their favour? |
Of course it should be the best person, although you can't get away from the subjective nature of 'best', which is why you find clusters of type. It would be like stating that there should be at least one Asian, White, Middle Eastern, Black etc in every final of a maths contest.
IQ correlates with race, as does athletic ability and many other factors, but correlation does not mean that people should be bucketed. |
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Esox Lucius
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9909
Location: Banbury, Oxon.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| RLHOOP wrote: |
IQ correlates with race, as does athletic ability and many other factors, but correlation does not mean that people should be bucketed. |
So who is second after the whites?
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It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope. |
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DroopStreetOldBoys
Level 2 dot.orger
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| RLHOOP wrote: | | DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | RLHOOP wrote: | Affirmative action will be the next thing to blow up in people's faces. It is bordering on a joke over here and lands people in roles where they are so far out of their depth it is detrimental to the process.
Why should any group get a better chance than another. Best candidate should be the one to get the role, position or place. Giving a minority an unfair advantage is just insulting them further by saying normally you wouldn't have got this but we have a quota to meet. |
There has never, ever, been a time when the best candidate for the role has got the job, the old boy network operates at all levels, when it was a old white boys club it just didn't get the publicity. Affermitive action for roles where race might be an issue is a good thing - Missispippi has something like a 36% black population and one black court judge and a prison population of 75%.
Mind you, we are suffereing here from a similar problem with affermitive selection. Our government is full of the Eton educated descendents of the Norman invaders, maybe centuries of breeding and privelege has made them the best candidates for the job, or maybe there is something else in their favour? |
Of course it should be the best person, although you can't get away from the subjective nature of 'best', which is why you find clusters of type. It would be like stating that there should be at least one Asian, White, Middle Eastern, Black etc in every final of a maths contest.
IQ correlates with race, as does athletic ability and many other factors, but correlation does not mean that people should be bucketed. |
I think you're confusing affirmative action with quotas (which are illegal in the US.) Affirmitive action is simply a vigorous form of equal opportunities, how you can be against that is beyond me.
As for IQ, anyone with any intelligence would know in the US Asian Americans score the highest, but anyone with anything approaching "intelligence" would perhaps have looked at the reasons there are supposedly racial differences, maybe even reading a book or two (including - Race and intelligence: A sorry tale of shoddy science) and worked out for themselves the inherent racial and cultural bias of Intelligence Quotas.
IQ doesn't correlate with race, race itself is an often spurious grouping for these tests -
"The difficulty is that "intelligence" is not a very smart word. Unlike weight, there is no absolute measure of intelligence, just as there is no true gauge of honesty. When you combine such a slippery word with an equally slippery one – namely "race" – you end up with the notorious claim that intelligence tests prove that some racial groups are genetically inferior.
This wrong-headed idea dates back years. Francis Galton (1822-1911), a pioneer of intelligence testing, also founded the Eugenics Society, which set out to "improve" the genetic composition of the population – a philosophy that helped to inspire the Nazis' extermination of "undesirable" groups.
Sadly, the notion survived its most brutal exponents. In the Seventies, the psychologists Arthur Jensen and Hans Eysenck asserted that blacks have IQs lower than whites. In the Nineties, the American Right-winger Charles Murray suggested that the lowest levels of society would always be "the underclass", held back by innate differences in mental capability. "
The Telegraph |
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Dunc
Level 3 dot.orger
Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 1443
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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This thread has been a good read.
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DAVEf
dot.org vip
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 21347
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: racism |
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| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | Don wrote: | | DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | We're not all the same but we really should all have the same opportunities, respect and freedoms. |
| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | I look forward to when you post about the raspberries getting all these priveleges because they obviouly think they're better than us, even though we're all the same. |
'Raspberries' results in a different word for those under 30, I believe. It's 'Blackmail Man' versus Madonna. And it's rhyming slang gone mad. |
My nipples aren't raspberry coloured, or I'm assuming, flavoured. |
"Assuming"? You haven't checked  |
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RLHOOP
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 6591
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Esox Lucius wrote: | | RLHOOP wrote: |
IQ correlates with race, as does athletic ability and many other factors, but correlation does not mean that people should be bucketed. |
So who is second after the whites? |
White is not top. |
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RLHOOP
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 6591
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | RLHOOP wrote: | | DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | RLHOOP wrote: | Affirmative action will be the next thing to blow up in people's faces. It is bordering on a joke over here and lands people in roles where they are so far out of their depth it is detrimental to the process.
Why should any group get a better chance than another. Best candidate should be the one to get the role, position or place. Giving a minority an unfair advantage is just insulting them further by saying normally you wouldn't have got this but we have a quota to meet. |
There has never, ever, been a time when the best candidate for the role has got the job, the old boy network operates at all levels, when it was a old white boys club it just didn't get the publicity. Affermitive action for roles where race might be an issue is a good thing - Missispippi has something like a 36% black population and one black court judge and a prison population of 75%.
Mind you, we are suffereing here from a similar problem with affermitive selection. Our government is full of the Eton educated descendents of the Norman invaders, maybe centuries of breeding and privelege has made them the best candidates for the job, or maybe there is something else in their favour? |
Of course it should be the best person, although you can't get away from the subjective nature of 'best', which is why you find clusters of type. It would be like stating that there should be at least one Asian, White, Middle Eastern, Black etc in every final of a maths contest.
IQ correlates with race, as does athletic ability and many other factors, but correlation does not mean that people should be bucketed. |
I think you're confusing affirmative action with quotas (which are illegal in the US.) Affirmitive action is simply a vigorous form of equal opportunities, how you can be against that is beyond me.
As for IQ, anyone with any intelligence would know in the US Asian Americans score the highest, but anyone with anything approaching "intelligence" would perhaps have looked at the reasons there are supposedly racial differences, maybe even reading a book or two (including - Race and intelligence: A sorry tale of shoddy science) and worked out for themselves the inherent racial and cultural bias of Intelligence Quotas.
IQ doesn't correlate with race, race itself is an often spurious grouping for these tests -
"The difficulty is that "intelligence" is not a very smart word. Unlike weight, there is no absolute measure of intelligence, just as there is no true gauge of honesty. When you combine such a slippery word with an equally slippery one – namely "race" – you end up with the notorious claim that intelligence tests prove that some racial groups are genetically inferior.
This wrong-headed idea dates back years. Francis Galton (1822-1911), a pioneer of intelligence testing, also founded the Eugenics Society, which set out to "improve" the genetic composition of the population – a philosophy that helped to inspire the Nazis' extermination of "undesirable" groups.
Sadly, the notion survived its most brutal exponents. In the Seventies, the psychologists Arthur Jensen and Hans Eysenck asserted that blacks have IQs lower than whites. In the Nineties, the American Right-winger Charles Murray suggested that the lowest levels of society would always be "the underclass", held back by innate differences in mental capability. "
The Telegraph |
It's a controversial subject, I agree, and of course there are going to be arguments and counter claims. Genetically we all vary, have different aptitudes and are affected by environment and social factors. This doesn't mean the correlations don't exist.
Ignore intelligence and look at other things, like ability to handle alcohol, susceptibility to be a serial killer etc |
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glover_1991
Level 1 dot.orger
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't even say I am good friends with black people to be honest, just old school mates, your getting me all wrong.. what I find amazing is that no-one on here will admit they have been racist or would dislike it if their daughter when out with a different colour. some might not but I would have a grand on it that some on here have been racist, or are racist but are painting this snobby outlook and not just talking like normal blokes ? are we from west london or hampstead heath, cambridge or oxford university ? jesus. Oh and women wouldnt want anyone thinking im racist and sexist.. |
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DAVEf
dot.org vip
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 21347
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| glover_1991 wrote: | | I wouldn't even say I am good friends with black people to be honest, just old school mates, your getting me all wrong.. what I find amazing is that no-one on here will admit they have been racist or would dislike it if their daughter when out with a different colour. some might not but I would have a grand on it that some on here have been racist, or are racist but are painting this snobby outlook and not just talking like normal blokes ? are we from west london or hampstead heath, cambridge or oxford university ? jesus. Oh and women wouldnt want anyone thinking im racist and sexist.. |
Science has proven that all life is "racist".
But we, as supposedly intellectually developed creatures, expect ourselves to be better than the rest in understanding how small and irrelevant differences can be. And we try (some of us) and that has to be good enough for now.
And if we go back to early discussions of "taking offence" then the easier that happens the harder it becomes for some people to try and they head instead towards conflict.
Curious, though, how racism often goes out the window when it comes to sex. Or, for that matter, how homophobia seems not to apply to lesbianism (especially if the lesbians are attractive).  |
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DroopStreetOldBoys
Level 2 dot.orger
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| DAVEf wrote: |
Science has proven that all life is "racist".
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Species-ist, possibly, discriminatory certainly, but as hard as it is to believe, I'm the same species as glover, just a little more evolved. |
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Dunc
Level 3 dot.orger
Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 1443
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | DAVEf wrote: |
Science has proven that all life is "racist".
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Species-ist, possibly, discriminatory certainly, but as hard as it is to believe, I'm the same species as glover, just a little more evolved. |
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rblockells
dot.org legend
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 12967
Location: london
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | DAVEf wrote: |
Science has proven that all life is "racist".
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Species-ist, possibly, discriminatory certainly, but as hard as it is to believe, I'm the same species as glover, just a little more evolved. |
 
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DAVEf
dot.org vip
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 21347
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| DroopStreetOldBoys wrote: | | DAVEf wrote: |
Science has proven that all life is "racist".
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Species-ist, possibly, discriminatory certainly, but as hard as it is to believe, I'm the same species as glover, just a little more evolved. |
"Race" is an invented word relevant only to Humanity anyway.
And all life on our little planet does share very similar DNA.
Sad and embarrassing as that might, at times, be.  |
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