He should go....

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krama
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Re: He should go....

Post by krama » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 pm

222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:13 pm
krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:49 pm
Crabsandwich wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:57 pm


I'm sure we've all watched a fair amount of porn but I've never heard it described like that before.

And what's this about SMc being a known failure? 99% of managers are failures, unless it's their first job, in which case they are unproven. Someone who made it to the pinnacle of his profession probably deserves a bit more credit, recent performances notwithstanding.
Exactly this. aniclap
I can't give any credit to a manager/coach that brings in two presumably very highly paid strkers on loan then plays a system that gives them no service, and at Swansea, at 0-3 down, brings on a centre half and finally a wide man with just three minutes to go.
I wasn't on the bench with smc so not privy to his thoughts and justifications, but maybe at 0-3 down with 3 mins left he felt the game was lost and gave those guys you mention a run out?

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Re: He should go....

Post by 222gers » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:35 pm

krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 pm
222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:13 pm
krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:49 pm

Exactly this. aniclap
I can't give any credit to a manager/coach that brings in two presumably very highly paid strkers on loan then plays a system that gives them no service, and at Swansea, at 0-3 down, brings on a centre half and finally a wide man with just three minutes to go.
I wasn't on the bench with smc so not privy to his thoughts and justifications, but maybe at 0-3 down with 3 mins left he felt the game was lost and gave those guys you mention a run out?
He must truly be a great manager if he could evaluate a couple of players in three minutes ! I wonder if either of them actually touched the ball.

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Re: He should go....

Post by krama » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:02 pm

222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:35 pm
krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 pm
222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:13 pm


I can't give any credit to a manager/coach that brings in two presumably very highly paid strkers on loan then plays a system that gives them no service, and at Swansea, at 0-3 down, brings on a centre half and finally a wide man with just three minutes to go.
I wasn't on the bench with smc so not privy to his thoughts and justifications, but maybe at 0-3 down with 3 mins left he felt the game was lost and gave those guys you mention a run out?
He must truly be a great manager if he could evaluate a couple of players in three minutes ! I wonder if either of them actually touched the ball.
Reckon he knows what they can do anyway without evaluating them in three mins of game time...he probably evaluates them in training would be my hunch. :?

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Re: He should go....

Post by 222gers » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:52 pm

krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:02 pm
222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:35 pm
krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 pm

I wasn't on the bench with smc so not privy to his thoughts and justifications, but maybe at 0-3 down with 3 mins left he felt the game was lost and gave those guys you mention a run out?
He must truly be a great manager if he could evaluate a couple of players in three minutes ! I wonder if either of them actually touched the ball.
Reckon he knows what they can do anyway without evaluating them in three mins of game time...he probably evaluates them in training would be my hunch. :?
If he successfully evaluated them in training he wouldn't have needed a whole three minutes of game time. Maybe the thought crossed what he calls his mind, that they could combine and rattle in four goals in the last three minutes to pull off an unlikely 4-3 away win ! Or it could be that the bloke hasn't got a clue. I go for the latter. :!: :wink:

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Re: He should go....

Post by Montag » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:13 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:35 pm
Montag wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:45 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:14 am
If Les didn't promote him should he have a job for life?
No he should be sentenced to life for employing a selection of crap, incapable managers - Ollie excepted who, statistically was one of our worst ever managers.
Interesting viewpoint except that he hasn't appointed any managers yet.
He must've had considerable input otherwise, what's he doing of and don't change my posts. Ollie was half decent I said. Which he was regardless of stats.
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Re: He should go....

Post by stainrod's elbow » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:17 pm

222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:35 pm
krama wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 pm
222gers wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:13 pm


I can't give any credit to a manager/coach that brings in two presumably very highly paid strkers on loan then plays a system that gives them no service, and at Swansea, at 0-3 down, brings on a centre half and finally a wide man with just three minutes to go.
I wasn't on the bench with smc so not privy to his thoughts and justifications, but maybe at 0-3 down with 3 mins left he felt the game was lost and gave those guys you mention a run out?
He must truly be a great manager if he could evaluate a couple of players in three minutes ! I wonder if either of them actually touched the ball.
Smyth barely touched the ball in a whole half at Blackpool, and he wasn't alone!
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Re: He should go....

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:46 am

Montag wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:13 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:35 pm
Montag wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:45 am


No he should be sentenced to life for employing a selection of crap, incapable managers - Ollie excepted who, statistically was one of our worst ever managers.
Interesting viewpoint except that he hasn't appointed any managers yet.
He must've had considerable input otherwise, what's he doing of and don't change my posts. Ollie was half decent I said. Which he was regardless of stats.
Except he wasn't half decent was he? He was poor... along with most of our recent managers.
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Re: He should go....

Post by White Duck » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:04 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:46 am
Montag wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:13 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:35 pm

Interesting viewpoint except that he hasn't appointed any managers yet.
He must've had considerable input otherwise, what's he doing of and don't change my posts. Ollie was half decent I said. Which he was regardless of stats.
Except he wasn't half decent was he? He was poor... along with most of our recent managers.
So if in your limited opinion Holloway was poor then what does that make SMC? :roll:
Lex Talionis........

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Re: He should go....

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:01 am

Currently, statisically, the third best manager we have had since Venables. I think he has been a mistake because he appears to have jettisoned his remit in an effort to keep his job and that pisses me off. Going backwards into the hire a manager/ fire a manager cycle hasn't worked for us ever as far as I can remember, so what would be the benefit of doing it again. I am heartily sick of people calling for the board, the staff, the manager, the players to be sacked after every defeat, it's not even constructive criticism, it is just bile. I wonder why the same people aren't on here screaming about giving the players and manager 10 year contracts after every win? Supporting QPR over the years has proven to have a cyclical cadence to it and we are currently in one of the nadirs, this too will pass.
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Re: He should go....

Post by old pauline » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:27 am

But sometimes its a case of needs must. For example, I believe that we may have gone down if we had stuck with Hasselbank in 2016 but we got rid and Ollie got us back on track. That is my opinion. And I am pretty much of the same view now.
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Re: He should go....

Post by UxbridgeR » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:35 am

The contention that we will go down if we stick with (Insert Current Manager's Name Here) has been a recurring theme on this board since we came back down to the Championship. Ramsey, JFH, Holloway, and now McLaren. And yet in that time, I think we have only once been in the bottom three, and even then very early in the season, and only for one game.

Another recurring theme is that we should be doing better with the players we have, and would certainly do so if only we could replace (Insert Current Manager's Name Here).

Replacing the manager is always the only possible answer

Groundhog Day.
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Re: He should go....

Post by White Duck » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:37 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:01 am
Currently, statisically, the third best manager we have had since Venables. I think he has been a mistake because he appears to have jettisoned his remit in an effort to keep his job and that pisses me off. Going backwards into the hire a manager/ fire a manager cycle hasn't worked for us ever as far as I can remember, so what would be the benefit of doing it again. I am heartily sick of people calling for the board, the staff, the manager, the players to be sacked after every defeat, it's not even constructive criticism, it is just bile. I wonder why the same people aren't on here screaming about giving the players and manager 10 year contracts after every win? Supporting QPR over the years has proven to have a cyclical cadence to it and we are currently in one of the nadirs, this too will pass.
So you agree he's not following the club's remit to bring through and develop the young players and instead gone for the short term loans/over 30s option (and STILL getting terrible performances and results) and yet you think we should keep him on ad infinitum. Or do you have a point in time where you agree it's not working?

Developing the young players and creating a pathway for them into the first team is the future of QPR under FFP restrictions and we have ended up with a manager who clearly doesn't believe in this and yet people like you would rather keep allowing him to do this to the detriment of the club.
Lex Talionis........

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Re: He should go....

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:06 pm

White Duck wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:37 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:01 am
Currently, statisically, the third best manager we have had since Venables. I think he has been a mistake because he appears to have jettisoned his remit in an effort to keep his job and that pisses me off. Going backwards into the hire a manager/ fire a manager cycle hasn't worked for us ever as far as I can remember, so what would be the benefit of doing it again. I am heartily sick of people calling for the board, the staff, the manager, the players to be sacked after every defeat, it's not even constructive criticism, it is just bile. I wonder why the same people aren't on here screaming about giving the players and manager 10 year contracts after every win? Supporting QPR over the years has proven to have a cyclical cadence to it and we are currently in one of the nadirs, this too will pass.
So you agree he's not following the club's remit to bring through and develop the young players and instead gone for the short term loans/over 30s option (and STILL getting terrible performances and results) and yet you think we should keep him on ad infinitum. Or do you have a point in time where you agree it's not working?

Developing the young players and creating a pathway for them into the first team is the future of QPR under FFP restrictions and we have ended up with a manager who clearly doesn't believe in this and yet people like you would rather keep allowing him to do this to the detriment of the club.
No he is NOT following what we were all led to be his remit. Is it because the fans were ready to jump all over him before a ball was kicked this season? There were people willing him to fail just because he wasn't Holloway. Despite having better stats than Holloway he is receiving far more opprobrium than Holloway did at the start. Care to explain that one?
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Re: He should go....

Post by White Duck » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:16 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:06 pm
White Duck wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:37 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:01 am
Currently, statisically, the third best manager we have had since Venables. I think he has been a mistake because he appears to have jettisoned his remit in an effort to keep his job and that pisses me off. Going backwards into the hire a manager/ fire a manager cycle hasn't worked for us ever as far as I can remember, so what would be the benefit of doing it again. I am heartily sick of people calling for the board, the staff, the manager, the players to be sacked after every defeat, it's not even constructive criticism, it is just bile. I wonder why the same people aren't on here screaming about giving the players and manager 10 year contracts after every win? Supporting QPR over the years has proven to have a cyclical cadence to it and we are currently in one of the nadirs, this too will pass.
So you agree he's not following the club's remit to bring through and develop the young players and instead gone for the short term loans/over 30s option (and STILL getting terrible performances and results) and yet you think we should keep him on ad infinitum. Or do you have a point in time where you agree it's not working?

Developing the young players and creating a pathway for them into the first team is the future of QPR under FFP restrictions and we have ended up with a manager who clearly doesn't believe in this and yet people like you would rather keep allowing him to do this to the detriment of the club.
No he is NOT following what we were all led to be his remit. Is it because the fans were ready to jump all over him before a ball was kicked this season? There were people willing him to fail just because he wasn't Holloway. Despite having better stats than Holloway he is receiving far more opprobrium than Holloway did at the start. Care to explain that one?
"Willing him to fail"? I really think you have just made that up. You really do like a good slag off of QPR fans don't you? Where is your evidence that any fans have stated they hope the team play terribly and lose games just to harm SMc?

Yes loads of supporters would rather have kept Holloway if they had known the replacement was ro be SMc, but the vast majority were behind him once he was in place, and the reason for the change made sense IF he was going to follow the club's remit. He hasn't, and on top of that he hasn't got the performances or results either.

And why do you think Holloway (successful player and manager for QPR) was given an easier time than SMc?
Lex Talionis........

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Re: He should go....

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:39 pm

White Duck wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:16 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:06 pm
White Duck wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:37 am


So you agree he's not following the club's remit to bring through and develop the young players and instead gone for the short term loans/over 30s option (and STILL getting terrible performances and results) and yet you think we should keep him on ad infinitum. Or do you have a point in time where you agree it's not working?

Developing the young players and creating a pathway for them into the first team is the future of QPR under FFP restrictions and we have ended up with a manager who clearly doesn't believe in this and yet people like you would rather keep allowing him to do this to the detriment of the club.
No he is NOT following what we were all led to be his remit. Is it because the fans were ready to jump all over him before a ball was kicked this season? There were people willing him to fail just because he wasn't Holloway. Despite having better stats than Holloway he is receiving far more opprobrium than Holloway did at the start. Care to explain that one?
"Willing him to fail"? I really think you have just made that up. You really do like a good slag off of QPR fans don't you? Where is your evidence that any fans have stated they hope the team play terribly and lose games just to harm SMc?

Yes loads of supporters would rather have kept Holloway if they had known the replacement was to be SMc, but the vast majority were behind him once he was in place, and the reason for the change made sense IF he was going to follow the club's remit. He hasn't, and on top of that he hasn't got the performances or results either.

And why do you think Holloway (successful player and manager for QPR) was given an easier time than SMc?
You answered the question in your first paragraph with your own second paragraph. In addition, there were many who weren't behind him once he was in, casual supporter Stainrod's Elbow being a very vocal dissident voice.
The results are a statistical fact; he has done better than Holloway so far. The performances have been sketchy, wavering between the best that supporters have seen in many years to abject failures similar to those posted by Holloway in his time with us.
Holloway's popularity is a real curates egg, he was generally met by a groan when it was announced that he was playing as it meant either Wilkins or Barker weren't. He was your basic water carrier in the team, and there is nothing wrong with that, he didn't have any fancy aspirations like Barton did, he did the simple things and let the footballers in the side get on with their jobs. His record as a manager bears even less scrutiny than SMC's record and the only reason anyone seems to want him back is "because he is QPR". That also appears to be the reasoning behind giving him an easier ride than SMC for a worse record.
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

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