Aston Villa

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dm
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by dm » Sun May 27, 2018 11:07 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:48 am
ActonArthur wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:55 am
Giorgio wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:32 pm


...well..only two seasons ago they came to LR towards the end of it, playing to avoid relegation - and they won.
So I am wondering how and what they did to improve so fast, from struggling to stay up into going to the Prem.
May be the same path that Cardiff and Wolves used....
They made a progressive managerial appointment - unlike QPR Just done that.
They stuck with their manager for more than two seasons- unlike QPR 1.5 seasons so far.
Other than that, spot on.
However well SM might do at QPR - and I hope he does do well - his appointment could never be described as progressive.

1.5 seasons is not 2 seasons and, with Ollie gone, it will never be now.

So I think AA's points stand.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by Esox Lucius » Sun May 27, 2018 11:30 am

SMC is a progressive move IMO and Colin has only been at Cardiff for 1.5 seasons.
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by T-Block » Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am

Zenith -really? You clearly know more about football than a manager who has managed 500+ games.
You know nothing.At best an arrogant statement ; at worst the statement of someone who runs a message board.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by ZENITH R » Mon May 28, 2018 11:09 am

T-Block wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am
Zenith -really? You clearly know more about football than a manager who has managed 500+ games.
You know nothing.At best an arrogant statement ; at worst the statement of someone who runs a message board.
I know that Washington is a striker not a winger
I know Wzsolek is a winger not a wing back
I know Bidwell is a full back not a wing back

Going back in time I knew Georges Santos was a defender and NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS was he a centre forward

I know that 95% of football is in the head - and confidence is a major factor in winning football matches

I also know that football is a team game, and freezing out members of the squad is only going to produce negativity

Arrogance? I think it's more about observation. Look at any 11 we put out over the last 18 months and ask how many were playing in their 'best' and natural positions? How many were being asked to do things they clearly weren't suited to?

There were plenty of results and performances which support that.

I was sorry to see Olly go, but with 500+ matches under his belt he didn't show that he was learning from his mistakes. I wasn't confident he knew how to get the best out of the players or the team. Clearly those running the club didn't have that confidence either.

Next season will be interesting. We don't have much money, so I doubt we'll see too many additions over the summer. It will be telling if one experienced manager can get more out of a group of players than the previous experienced manager. That of course is often the way.

Fingers crossed
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon May 28, 2018 11:21 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 11:09 am
T-Block wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am
Zenith -really? You clearly know more about football than a manager who has managed 500+ games.
You know nothing.At best an arrogant statement ; at worst the statement of someone who runs a message board.
I know that Washington is a striker not a winger
I know Wzsolek is a winger not a wing back
I know Bidwell is a full back not a wing back

Going back in time I knew Georges Santos was a defender and NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS was he a centre forward

I know that 95% of football is in the head - and confidence is a major factor in winning football matches

I also know that football is a team game, and freezing out members of the squad is only going to produce negativity

Arrogance? I think it's more about observation. Look at any 11 we put out over the last 18 months and ask how many were playing in their 'best' and natural positions? How many were being asked to do things they clearly weren't suited to?

There were plenty of results and performances which support that.

I was sorry to see Olly go, but with 500+ matches under his belt he didn't show that he was learning from his mistakes. I wasn't confident he knew how to get the best out of the players or the team. Clearly those running the club didn't have that confidence either.

Next season will be interesting. We don't have much money, so I doubt we'll see too many additions over the summer. It will be telling if one experienced manager can get more out of a group of players than the previous experienced manager. That of course is often the way.

Fingers crossed
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon May 28, 2018 11:24 am

T-Block wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am
Zenith -really? You clearly know more about football than a manager who has managed 500+ games.
You know nothing.At best an arrogant statement ; at worst the statement of someone who runs a message board.
Not sure Zenith was actually singling out Ollie as such more summarising what it takes to be successful I.e Fulham & Warnock.

Ollie played people out of position & it took the fans a matter of 5 games to realise that wingbacks wasn’t ever gonna work for us, it took Ollie 25 games for the penny to drop.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by UxbridgeR » Mon May 28, 2018 5:22 pm

westlondonlalala wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 11:24 am
T-Block wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am
Zenith -really? You clearly know more about football than a manager who has managed 500+ games.
You know nothing.At best an arrogant statement ; at worst the statement of someone who runs a message board.
Not sure Zenith was actually singling out Ollie as such more summarising what it takes to be successful I.e Fulham & Warnock.

Ollie played people out of position & it took the fans a matter of 5 games to realise that wingbacks wasn’t ever gonna work for us, it took Ollie 25 games for the penny to drop.
That suggests that what it takes to be successful can be easily summarised, and consequently easily put into practice. In which case presumably, everyone would be doing it, although by definition if they were, everyone couldn't and wouldn't be successful. Fulham and Cardiff could hardly have been more different in the way they played and went about things. Which model should we follow to guarantee success ?
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon May 28, 2018 7:02 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:22 pm
westlondonlalala wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 11:24 am
T-Block wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am
Zenith -really? You clearly know more about football than a manager who has managed 500+ games.
You know nothing.At best an arrogant statement ; at worst the statement of someone who runs a message board.
Not sure Zenith was actually singling out Ollie as such more summarising what it takes to be successful I.e Fulham & Warnock.

Ollie played people out of position & it took the fans a matter of 5 games to realise that wingbacks wasn’t ever gonna work for us, it took Ollie 25 games for the penny to drop.
That suggests that what it takes to be successful can be easily summarised, and consequently easily put into practice. In which case presumably, everyone would be doing it, although by definition if they were, everyone couldn't and wouldn't be successful. Fulham and Cardiff could hardly have been more different in the way they played and went about things. Which model should we follow to guarantee success ?
Not sure but the fact that one of Cardiff’s most important & influential players was deemed not worthy by many of our fans & the fact that our former manager deemed not worthy by our board picked him up on a free says it all.

They are now both once again in the premier league, one would suggest that it’s not as difficult as people may think.

Your saying everyone would be at it if it’s that simple, point is UX only 3 can go up & was there really that much between 2nd to 6th ability wise not really.

I’m not saying I wanted Ollie out I’m not saying I expect anything more than mid table BUT I can see both sides of the argument regarding his departure.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by old pauline » Mon May 28, 2018 7:13 pm

Its worth remembering that 3-5-2 did actually work for us initially and there were a HELL of a lot pf people on here who were supportive of it. In fact, it could have been that it was only because od the defensive crisis that it became stifled and we had to revert to 4-4-2.

There were merits in the 3-5-2 though.
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon May 28, 2018 7:23 pm

old pauline wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:13 pm
Its worth remembering that 3-5-2 did actually work for us initially and there were a HELL of a lot pf people on here who were supportive of it. In fact, it could have been that it was only because od the defensive crisis that it became stifled and we had to revert to 4-4-2.

There were merits in the 3-5-2 though.
I agree but he still persisted to try and fit square pegs in round holes & should have scrapped it a lot sooner.

I think Ollies departure goes deeper than formation or performance, i think the board had ideas a while back & Schteve has been on the radar for some time.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by stainesranger » Mon May 28, 2018 7:59 pm

Agreed. And therein lies the litmus test for whether or not they’re getting involved was wise or not. Obviously I’m hoping that they know their business and I’m hoping for the best but at this stage, given what’s gone before, I’ll admit I’m sceptical.

For the record, that’s not hoping we fail (quite the opposite), just a genuine worry. Not because I support Ollie over the club (that’s a ridiculous idea), but because I’m hoping for the best for the team I support.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon May 28, 2018 8:24 pm

Yep I have a feeling this could be sh*t or bust with the board & fans relationship.

If all goes well then fair enough onwards & hopefully upwards we go.

If it goes wrong & Schteve is a failure then god knows what next.

Makes me laugh though how so many are now sad to see Ollie go, I’m sure half of those are the same mob slating his appointment in the first place.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by Andy_N19 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:41 pm

I'd support Zenith & Esox here. Holloway had clearly run out of ideas. Yes he'd win a couple of games on the bounce but not be able to galvanize a young promising squad to new levels.

Dunno if Shteve is the answer but he ticks a few boxes in terms of coach in young players in light of our financial constraints.
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Re: Aston Villa

Post by Devonranger » Mon May 28, 2018 9:21 pm

Interested to see what Schteve can do with the Luke's of Wzsolek, Luongo, Scowen, Bright Osayi Samuel amongst others- Sylla as well - all the other young players as well.

We still have Wheeler to come back in too - would fit in well with a 4-3-3 which Scteve apparently favoured at Derby, and we have personnel who can play the system too.

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Re: Aston Villa

Post by stainesranger » Mon May 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Any player who breaks their leg I basically discount as done and dusted until they prove otherwise. Add to that the fact that wheeler wasn’t proven at this level means that I hold out little or no hope for him having any impact on our first team whatsoever

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