LGBT initiative by the club

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SheepRanger
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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:09 pm

dm wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:43 pm
It may seem strange to those of us who are born with certainty about our sexuality and with a male or female set of genitalia. However, there are more who don't possess such 'norms' than we'd imagine. They don't neatly fit into our usual categories and consequently their lives are often very difficult.

I dare say there may be some who frequent this MB who would identify as Questioning or Intersex. But whoever and wherever they are they deserve the same dignity and respect as anyone else.

What is Questioning and Intersex?

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by WA Hoop » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:34 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:09 pm
dm wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:43 pm
It may seem strange to those of us who are born with certainty about our sexuality and with a male or female set of genitalia. However, there are more who don't possess such 'norms' than we'd imagine. They don't neatly fit into our usual categories and consequently their lives are often very difficult.

I dare say there may be some who frequent this MB who would identify as Questioning or Intersex. But whoever and wherever they are they deserve the same dignity and respect as anyone else.

What is Questioning and Intersex?
A slightly wider "community"?
Question everything.

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dm
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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by dm » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:08 pm

WA Hoop wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:34 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:09 pm
dm wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:43 pm
It may seem strange to those of us who are born with certainty about our sexuality and with a male or female set of genitalia. However, there are more who don't possess such 'norms' than we'd imagine. They don't neatly fit into our usual categories and consequently their lives are often very difficult.

I dare say there may be some who frequent this MB who would identify as Questioning or Intersex. But whoever and wherever they are they deserve the same dignity and respect as anyone else.

What is Questioning and Intersex?
A slightly wider "community"?
Not being an expert, I've copied these definitions from here: http://www.barnardos.org.uk/what_we_do/ ... nology.htm and here: http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

Someone who is questioning in relation to LGBTQ issues is still establishing their sexual and/or gender identity.

“Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by DroopStreetOldBoys » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:05 pm

WA Hoop wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:47 pm
DroopStreetOldBoys wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:09 pm
WA Hoop wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:58 am


Is there an echo around here? Yes I did...boring. The club haven't even included the newly "fashionable" LGBTQI extension, how remiss of them. Personally, I've always wondered who exactly enjoys being labelled part of an all encompassing "community" based simply upon nothing other than their sexual orientation(s)? Like the Big IP stated I accept all QPR fans irrespective of race, religion or sexual orientation, I just don't feel the need to categorise them. As long as we are united in our petty prejudices regarding opposing teams & their players all is good in the World! :wink:
Identity politics is a bit more complicated than you're suggesting and is a response that reminds me of the phrase "I don't see colour"
With all due respect you should be careful where you tread. You've made a big assumption already.
The only assumption I've made is based on your lazy understanding of identity politics, the same laziness that I encounter from the "I don't see colour" brigade. Perhaps you're "differently intelligent" in which case I apologise for trying to educate you.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:17 pm

If people in these groups want a voice and think this is the best way to go about it then fair enough. But I can't think what outcomes they can discuss that can't be met within existing fan groups. Any discrimination is surely met within the Kick It Out initiatives? Really struggling to identify unique issues that could be discussed to improve their match day experience. Toilets may be an issue, is it, I don't Know? I can see the advantages for disability demands though but not this.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by dm » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:33 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:17 pm
If people in these groups want a voice and think this is the best way to go about it then fair enough. But I can't think what outcomes they can discuss that can't be met within existing fan groups. Any discrimination is surely met within the Kick It Out initiatives? Really struggling to identify unique issues that could be discussed to improve their match day experience. Toilets may be an issue, is it, I don't Know? I can see the advantages for disability demands though but not this.
I'm also not sure what outcomes might be achieved by/for this group. But, I'm not LGBTQI and don't fully understand the issues. It's surely better that, rather than those of us who don't face the issues that arise from being LGBTQI, those who actually do call the shots?

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:08 pm

dm wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:33 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:17 pm
If people in these groups want a voice and think this is the best way to go about it then fair enough. But I can't think what outcomes they can discuss that can't be met within existing fan groups. Any discrimination is surely met within the Kick It Out initiatives? Really struggling to identify unique issues that could be discussed to improve their match day experience. Toilets may be an issue, is it, I don't Know? I can see the advantages for disability demands though but not this.
I'm also not sure what outcomes might be achieved by/for this group. But, I'm not LGBTQI and don't fully understand the issues. It's surely better that, rather than those of us who don't face the issues that arise from being LGBTQI, those who actually do call the shots?
Yup. I don't have any objection and if this gives them nothing more than feeling more comfortable speaking about the regular issues we all face, whilst amongst like minded people, then that's fine.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by stainesranger » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:36 pm

I remember “I’d rather be a paki than a scouse” being sung by large sections of Loftus Road in the 90s. That would be unthinkable now. “Does your boyfriend know you’re here” is not unthinkable now. This initiative is just the next stage in terms of getting rid of chants (and arguably ideas and viewpoints) that might be offensive to certain supporters, which is obviously a good thing.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by WA Hoop » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:07 am

DroopStreetOldBoys wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:05 pm
WA Hoop wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:47 pm
DroopStreetOldBoys wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:09 pm


Identity politics is a bit more complicated than you're suggesting and is a response that reminds me of the phrase "I don't see colour"
With all due respect you should be careful where you tread. You've made a big assumption already.
The only assumption I've made is based on your lazy understanding of identity politics, the same laziness that I encounter from the "I don't see colour" brigade. Perhaps you're "differently intelligent" in which case I apologise for trying to educate you.
Apology accepted.
Question everything.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by Nodge70 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:34 pm

stainesranger wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:36 pm
I remember “I’d rather be a paki than a scouse” being sung by large sections of Loftus Road in the 90s. That would be unthinkable now. “Does your boyfriend know you’re here” is not unthinkable now. This initiative is just the next stage in terms of getting rid of chants (and arguably ideas and viewpoints) that might be offensive to certain supporters, which is obviously a good thing.
We played Brighton down at the Withdean on Boxing Day - the Jake Cole game 03 0r 04, can't remember which.

The abuse our fans dished out en masse was frightening. "Does your boyfriend know you're here?, Stand Up cos you can't sit down, You've got AIDS...and You've got AIDS..."

Thankfully people seemed to have grown up a bit

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by Satch » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:58 pm

Nodge70 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:34 pm
stainesranger wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:36 pm
I remember “I’d rather be a paki than a scouse” being sung by large sections of Loftus Road in the 90s. That would be unthinkable now. “Does your boyfriend know you’re here” is not unthinkable now. This initiative is just the next stage in terms of getting rid of chants (and arguably ideas and viewpoints) that might be offensive to certain supporters, which is obviously a good thing.
We played Brighton down at the Withdean on Boxing Day - the Jake Cole game 03 0r 04, can't remember which.

The abuse our fans dished out en masse was frightening. "Does your boyfriend know you're here?, Stand Up cos you can't sit down, You've got AIDS...and You've got AIDS..."

Thankfully people seemed to have grown up a bit
Yep, i'm sure you'd get at least the first one still now. If some members of the LGBT community feel there is a need for an advocacy group to represent them uniquely amongst fans then that is their choice. I don't think it needs, what i assume to be a group of straight men suggesting what they should want because they personally don't differentiate based on sexuality or gender identity.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by Esox Lucius » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Just in case there are any on here who are concerned; no, you can't catch homosexuality from one. :roll:
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by old pauline » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:53 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Just in case there are any on here who are concerned; no, you can't catch homosexuality from one. :roll:
Oh dear. Best stick to football Esox.
Come on you Sooopa ........

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by SheepRanger » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:47 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Just in case there are any on here who are concerned; no, you can't catch homosexuality from one. :roll:
Is that YOUR opinion based on experiences you've had or fact? Could you please state either imo/fact in all future posts to avoid any confusion. How do you move from Questioning?

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Re: LGBT initiative by the club

Post by BiscuitRanger » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:34 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:45 pm
Just in case there are any on here who are concerned; no, you can't catch homosexuality from one. :roll:
To paraphrase 'Alas Smith & Jones'

You can suck it and see ... ;)
Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

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