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Lee Gib
dot.org player kit 2007
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1158
Location: Gibraltar
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 Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| W13hoop wrote: | No Stan it is not acceptable to me , but I have issues with us committing our forces for what we are bing told are humanitarian reasons when it is quite clear it is for our own British interests which is codeword for securing natural resources.
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I'm not disagreeing with you with reguards the bigger picture here but what more valid reason could there be to deply British forces if not for serving British interests? If it's only a humanitarian issue then maybe it's about time some other countries (i.e. the rest of the world) sacrificed their own children to do it instead of expecting it to be done by the usual suspects.
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W13hoop
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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'As for the UKs national interest, not one drop Libyan oil comes to the UK'
The below International Energy Agency article would show this statement to be completely false.
http://www.iea.org/files/facts_libya.pdf |
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W13hoop
Level 3 dot.orger
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well Lee as long as the family members of any military personal who are ordered to carry out any mission in Libya understand that their loved ones are fighting for Big business and risking their lives for UK PLC then thats ok.
I know if I was ever in the military I would be asking questions about why we are putting British lives at risk when there is no threat to our country or people whatsoever from Libya.
These interventions rather than make us safer as the lying politicians like to tell us if anything make us more vulnerable to an attack and none of us should be happy about that. |
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Esox Lucius
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9841
Location: Banbury, Oxon.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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So as long as no brits have to sleep uneasily we should just pretend that Gadaffi duck is not up to no good and ignore it?
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W13hoop
Level 3 dot.orger
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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I believe we should only use military force when our country and people are at a real threat or in response to attack on our soil.
I am 100% against all preemptive attacks on any sovereign nation as that is a blatant act of aggression.
After Iraq we have lost any moral authority we may have had , Iraq was illegal and completely unnecessary.
The lies that we were told by our politicians in the build up to that aggression were despicable and as a result I have no confidence in what we are told by the political class.
If you are okay about all of us now being a target for any response attacks on us then thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but I completely disagree with it. |
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Esox Lucius
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: Banbury, Oxon.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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To satisfy your conscience and my convictions I would be happy if we could blow up a politician for every tinpot dictator we kill.
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willo
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: Greenford
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| W13hoop wrote: | 'Regime change might be illegal bit there are times when it is the right choice'
Okay so you are happy for us to spout all this respect the rule of law BS but then break it when it suits us?
Do you not see how hypocritical that attitude it ?
I wonder how supportive people will be if there is any blowback for our latest military attack, it all seems so far away for many people that they dont care about these wars.
If there was a revenge suicide bomber in London this week killing dozens how would everyone supporting this mission feel then?
We have effectively declared war on Libya by these attacks and are now fair game for any Libyan response and I for one am not happy with that. |
Yes, I am happy for us to help remove murderous tyrants. I have no problem with that at all. |
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W13hoop
Level 3 dot.orger
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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The alleged support from the Arab League has just taken a rather large blow.
The head of the Arab league has just crisitised the Strikes saying they caused civilian casualties.
Looks like they were fooled with the no fly zone spiel like the UN.
Will I asked you how would you feel if there was a suicide attack in Britain killing British citizens ? |
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Esox Lucius
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9841
Location: Banbury, Oxon.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| W13hoop wrote: | The alleged support from the Arab League has just taken a rather large blow.
The head of the Arab league has just crisitised the Strikes saying they caused civilian casualties.
Looks like they were fooled with the no fly zone spiel like the UN.
Will I asked you how would you feel if there was a suicide attack in Britain killing British citizens ? |
Somewhere like Cardiff or Norwich say?
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Stan
Level 4 dot.orger
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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The Arab League has bee shown up for what it is even quicker than I expected - spineless gits.
Moussa, general secretary of the Arab League just 8 days ago said this: "The U.N. Security Council should decide how it will be enforced."
Today he's bitching. Get it done yourselves then!
I'd stop right this right this second if I had the authority to issue the order.
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Lee Gib
dot.org player kit 2007
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1158
Location: Gibraltar
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| willo wrote: | | Yes, I am happy for us to help remove murderous tyrants. I have no problem with that at all. |
Again, I'm not disagreeing with this but it's very easy to say when we're not the ones actually getting sent to do it. Only a politician finds it easy to send a British soldier to die to free people who won't appreciate the sacrifice.
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Opinions are like farts. Eveyone has them, some more than others. While most are discreet, some just cannot help but air theirs in public. What's the one thing they all have in common? They all stink...except your own, which smell great. |
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DAVEf
dot.org vip
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 21329
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| W13hoop wrote: | 'As for the UKs national interest, not one drop Libyan oil comes to the UK'
The below International Energy Agency article would show this statement to be completely false.
http://www.iea.org/files/facts_libya.pdf |
The more potential suppliers we have for our oil and gas needs then the better for us so a new Libyan regime that has a reason to like us couldn't be a bad thing.  |
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willo
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: Greenford
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee Gib wrote: | | willo wrote: | | Yes, I am happy for us to help remove murderous tyrants. I have no problem with that at all. |
Again, I'm not disagreeing with this but it's very easy to say when we're not the ones actually getting sent to do it. Only a politician finds it easy to send a British soldier to die to free people who won't appreciate the sacrifice. |
In fairness we don't have conscription. We have a professional military who have chosen that profession. |
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deepseahoop
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 6080
Location: Peoples Republic of South Ruislip
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| NYStan wrote: | The Arab League has bee shown up for what it is even quicker than I expected - spineless gits.
Moussa, general secretary of the Arab League just 8 days ago said this: "The U.N. Security Council should decide how it will be enforced."
Today he's bitching. Get it done yourselves then!
I'd stop right this right this second if I had the authority to issue the order. |
Thats just you being anti semetic Stan we know your racist anti arab views... 
It seems slightly hypocritical to go in and kill civilians in the name of defending civilians, the "civilians" in Benghazi have guns, RPG's and a number, small as it may be, of larger weapons. Sorry but they're not civilians their people who wanted to take power by force and any Government would have dealt with them in the same manner.
I've also not seen any evidence of mass civilain casualties caused by Gaddafi has anyone else we're being fed this line that its happening but no one has come out and said they've witnessed schools hospitals and other buildings being hit and the place is swarming with western journalists
This is about regime change and oil and possibly revenge for Lockerbie, its a pity we can't just admit it and have to hide behind this pseudo humanitarian excuse.
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Esox Lucius
Level 5 dot.orger
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9841
Location: Banbury, Oxon.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| deepseahoop wrote: | | NYStan wrote: | The Arab League has bee shown up for what it is even quicker than I expected - spineless gits.
Moussa, general secretary of the Arab League just 8 days ago said this: "The U.N. Security Council should decide how it will be enforced."
Today he's bitching. Get it done yourselves then!
I'd stop right this right this second if I had the authority to issue the order. |
Thats just you being anti semetic Stan we know your racist anti arab views...
It seems slightly hypocritical to go in and kill civilians in the name of defending civilians, the "civilians" in Benghazi have guns, RPG's and a number, small as it may be, of larger weapons. Sorry but they're not civilians their people who wanted to take power by force and any Government would have dealt with them in the same manner.
I've also not seen any evidence of mass civilain casualties caused by Gaddafi has anyone else we're being fed this line that its happening but no one has come out and said they've witnessed schools hospitals and other buildings being hit and the place is swarming with western journalists
This is about regime change and oil and possibly revenge for Lockerbie, its a pity we can't just admit it and have to hide behind this pseudo humanitarian excuse. |
I have a friend on the spot who has told me that there have been thousands of rebels AND innocent civilians been killed by Gadaffi ducks forces since it bagan. He can't post it on Youtube as he can't get any bandwitdh at the moment and says he doesn't have the right codecs for his AV files.
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It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope. |
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