Greece

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QPR_John
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Re: Greece

Post by QPR_John » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:09 pm

rblockells wrote:Well if they come out of the system they could default on what they owe.

The monies owed to the troika are so eye-wateringly large that there seems no way they could pay it back ever anyway.

Ordinary Greeks,or at least a majority,wanted to get out and start again.

However,they are not going to be allowed to do this.

They have years and years of grinding austerity ahead of them.
Would their situation be any better if they defaulted on the loan. Any loans at a later date would have eye watering interest rates. Swings and roundabouts maybe.

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Re: Greece

Post by SheepRanger » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:57 pm

QPR_John wrote:
rblockells wrote:Well if they come out of the system they could default on what they owe.

The monies owed to the troika are so eye-wateringly large that there seems no way they could pay it back ever anyway.

Ordinary Greeks,or at least a majority,wanted to get out and start again.

However,they are not going to be allowed to do this.

They have years and years of grinding austerity ahead of them.
Would their situation be any better if they defaulted on the loan. Any loans at a later date would have eye watering interest rates. Swings and roundabouts maybe.
Yes, in my opinion.
They would have needed a partnership which would have ended up being Russia. The associated trade embargoes may have followed. They would have been outcasts on the edge of Europe and at the mercy of a bigger bully. They have done the right thing, but I was a regular guy there, I'd have wanted a default. If they can't afford to pay it back don't give it, unless you wanted to create a mess to asset strip a nation. How many German firms will be picking up the privatisation bargains?!

But hey ho - nobody forced Greece to join and they knew you can't expect true independance in that Union - you play to someone else's rules by getting into bed with the devil.

Not one bullet fired in this invasion!

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rblockells
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Re: Greece

Post by rblockells » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:24 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... ave-greece

If anyone had any doubts about who exactly is calling all the shots ...then read this.

Democracy ? pah.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not.Both ideas are overwhelming.

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SheepRanger
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Re: Greece

Post by SheepRanger » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:54 am

rblockells wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... ave-greece

If anyone had any doubts about who exactly is calling all the shots ...then read this.

Democracy ? pah.
If it's all so damaging walk away, but they didn't!

Why did they sign then?

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Re: Greece

Post by QPR_John » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:04 pm

rblockells wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... ave-greece

If anyone had any doubts about who exactly is calling all the shots ...then read this.

Democracy ? pah.
The EU is hardly democratic, if you join a club you follow it's rules.

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rblockells
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Re: Greece

Post by rblockells » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:06 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
rblockells wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... ave-greece

If anyone had any doubts about who exactly is calling all the shots ...then read this.

Democracy ? pah.
If it's all so damaging walk away, but they didn't!

Why did they sign then?
Tsipras was "mentally water-boarded" for 17 hours according to reports.

Donald Tusk,a Polish ex-football hooligan,was yelling in his face.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not.Both ideas are overwhelming.

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rblockells
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Re: Greece

Post by rblockells » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:09 pm

QPR_John wrote:
rblockells wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... ave-greece

If anyone had any doubts about who exactly is calling all the shots ...then read this.

Democracy ? pah.
The EU is hardly democratic, if you join a club you follow it's rules.
"pay back the money"

"we can't"

"then we will keep you in the club,by forcing you to further austerity"
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not.Both ideas are overwhelming.

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dm
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Re: Greece

Post by dm » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:43 am

You know the EU have got it very badly wrong when even the bloody IMF are saying Greek debts should be cancelled.

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Re: Greece

Post by wrinklyhoop » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:58 am

The fat fraulein has sung, but methinks there is an epilogue...
Image

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QPRGR
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Re: Greece

Post by QPRGR » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:21 am

n Monday the 13th of July, the SYRIZA-ANEL government with the support of all the bourgeois parties agreed at the Eurozone Summit to a very harsh package of anti-people measures, the third memorandum, which will destroy whatever workers’-people’s rights have remained.

On Wednesday the 15th of July, the “first time leftwing” government passed the agreement of the Summit and the first raft of measures to be implemented for the 3rd memorandum with the votes of the bourgeois parties ND-PASOK-POTAMI, including new savage taxation measures and the abolition of pension rights.
The developments are a very clear expression of the failure of the so-called “renewed” or “governmental left”, of the theory that the EU can change its monopolist and anti-people character.
of this specific experience and overcoming the bourgeois mass media offensive, the workers in the Europe and all over the world must try to find the truth and utilize the developments in Greece so that they can draw useful conclusions.
after the elections of 2015, the SYRIZA-ANEL government continued the anti-people political line of the previous governments. On the 20th of February, it signed an agreement with the EU-ECB-IMF (Troika) and undertook commitments regarding the recognition and repayment of the debt that was not created by the people, the “avoidance of unilateral actions”, the non-implementation of its election promises and the promotion of “capitalist restructurings”.
It was the interests of the monopolies that were on the table of negotiations and on this basis more general contradictions were expressed that are related to the formula for the management of capitalism, the course of the Eurozone and Greece’s position in it, (including the possibility of a Grexit), the contradictions over hegemony in Europe between Germany and France, between the USA and the Eurozone and in particular Germany.
the demonstrations e.g. in Paris, Rome, Brussels, Nicosia, Lisbon and other cities, irrespective of who organized them and the slogans used, were utilized by SYRIZA as a “leftwing” alibi to strengthen its position, to present itself as a “saviour” and impose new harsh anti-people measures on the Greek workers.

In practice, the example of SYRIZA demonstrated once again that the so-called “left governments” are a form of management and reproduction of capitalist exploitation, that they cultivate illusions, disarm the popular forces and lead to the strengthening of conservative forces, to the return of rightwing governments. The examples of “leftwing governments” in France, Italy, Cyprus, Denmark and in Latin American countries confirm this assessment....

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Re: Greece

Post by DAVEf » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:37 am

The EU and its needs are powerful.

But maybe not as powerful as NATO and its needs.






And when I say "maybe" I probably mean "probably".


Or "certainly".
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rblockells
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Re: Greece

Post by rblockells » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:58 pm

"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not.Both ideas are overwhelming.

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