Silence on ISIS matter

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Why are there no posts regarding ISIS' massacres?

No one cares
1
8%
Israel can't be blamed
2
15%
Don't know what's going on there
1
8%
What 1 Bobby Hazell says
9
69%
 
Total votes: 13

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avigar
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Silence on ISIS matter

Post by avigar » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:23 am

What bothers me is why no one complains when thousands of innocent civilians are being killed in Syria and Iraq and no one mentions a word. However the moment Israel is involved it results in an at least 5 page thread?

What is the reason?
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Post by 1 Bobby Hazell » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:27 am

Although it would appear that no amount of explaining stops the constant, dogmatic without thought, use of this argument by those in support of Israeli Military Action as is evidenced by several posters still using it as some sort of bizarre hypocritical excuse to weakly attempt to negate the views of those that oppose them, I will still try.

The main reason that there are not and never are similarly heated debates about the atrocities commited by ISIS and their ilk is that NOBODY and I mean NOBODY comes onto the message board armed with information and ideology to use in support of their mass murder.

Thus there is no debate, no 100 page threads, no exasperated callers for peace being attacked as supporters of terrorists and so on etc etc. We are all in universal agreement in our condemnation of ISIS violence to the point where it is rarely expressed because it is so taken for granted. If a thread is ever made about it there will be a few posts all agreeing of the horrors of it all and the thread dies out because it lacks what 99% of long running, heated threads require, and that is sharply contrasting views and opinons. No one would support or defend ISIS in such a thread and if they did we would all attack them with both barrels.

HOWEVER, it appears that when Israel commits mass murder that some people, such as yourself Avigar, come on to the message board to defend it. That is where the increased 'attention' for Israeli acts comes on a message board. The difference is not us (those that condemn Israel) but you (those that support it). You are the difference in these debates.

ISIS - we all agree, violence and murdering people in their own homes is an abomination.

Israel - some of us think violence and murdering people in their own homes is an abomination, some of us think it is justified or at least unfortunately neccesary.

You may be right in your assertions that hypocrisy is present here, but I'm not so sure we agree on the culprits.

One other main reason, which links to the first one, is that our government and main ally the US not only support but fund the Israeli Military. So it feels appropriate to let them and fellow citizens know that I/we do not support their facilitation of mass murder, obviously that goes for actions of our own army as well and the disgraceful, manipulated 'wars' we have sent our fellow countrymen to fight in recently. Of course letting them know that we oppose ISIS is appropriate as well but they already know/assume that we oppose it and they hardly need encouraging to visit more violence on a country they invaded twice in 12 years!

I live in a 'democracy' that has a government that has, on more than one occasion sent it's army to far off places that have never attacked us and created wars under false pretences in which hundreds of thousands of people are killed. Surely in terms of protesting and being outraged at evil wrong doing that is more than enough to be getting on with. No? And what sort of legacy did this violence create? Surprise surprise it spawned the likes of ISIS. Who knew that visiting appalling murder and destruction on a country would lead to fertile breeding ground for extremism?!! Surely doesn't take much foresight.

Me, I want peace brother, and I know that in a place like the Middle East with its historical divisions is going to be a difficult place to bring it to. But I also know that it is up to 'the people' on all sides to see through and fight against the manipulations of their leaders (and information providers) into thinking that attempting to destroy each other is a justified/achievable/neccesary/supreme being demanded route. My immediate sphere of influence is my own 'side', condemning and attempting to stop violence committed in my name is my first point of call.
I hope there are people on the other side doing the same, when there are enough of us on both sides to drown out the 'more violence should do the trick' brigade we can get past these constant lines of division, hatred, separation, dehumanisation, revenge and violence that are so artfully engendered in us by our various forms of leaders. Never forget that the huge, huge majority of your fellow man just want a peaceful life.
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Post by 1 Bobby Hazell » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:28 am

Now if you could just cut and paste my answer as an option on your poll, I'll be happy to cast a vote.
"I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality" - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Post by DG » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:32 am

;-) DG
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Post by BiscuitRanger » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:55 pm

At the risk of being banned, or worse still suffering the ire of Bobby H, but shouldn't all Islamic fundamentalists be persecuted with impunity?
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Post by deepseahoop » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:52 pm

Talking of silence Avigar I guess Bobby answered your question... 8)
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Post by avigar » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:17 pm

deepseahoop wrote:Talking of silence Avigar I guess Bobby answered your question... 8)
DSH perhaps the reason for the silence lies in the fact that I have more to life outside qprdot.org :wink:

Secondly, the point I am trying to make isn't coming to defend the Israeli Military's Actions as that is another discussion entirely. What I'm trying to highlight is that I believe people like you feel more hate towards the State of Israel than that towards barbaric terrorist organisations such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Hizbollah, HAMAS and so many others who commit mass murder.

Whilst I understand your point as to why there are no heated discussions concerning these terror groups on these forums, I really do not comprehend how people are more disturbed by how Israel defends itself against it's neighbouring Islamic extremists, than by how these Islamic fundamentalists are murdering innocent civilians from their own countries.

The Media thinks the same way... The BBC the other day summarises it all. It's main headline stated that Israeli airstrikes had continued throughout the night killing 9 people (including 3 top Hamas commanders). The 2nd headline reported that ISIS had massacred a Yazidi village where the death toll is believed to have been approximately 80!

Even today in the BBC website in middle news category. 1st headline is "at least 2 Palestinians in Gaza killed". 2nd headline "at least 9 people killed in suicide bomb in Baghdad"...

Lets be honest Israeli aggression is what the people want to know about, that is more appealing. Why are there no mass demonstrations against these terror and rebel group's actions. "More than 191,000 people have now been killed in the three-year-old Syrian conflict up to April, the UN says". When was the last protest march against them?

Nevertheless, protests against Israel draws hundreds of thousands. Money down that if an anti Hamas/anti ISIS rally was organised, you wouldn't get the same numbers.

I believe that the day ISIS and these other terrorist groups reach Europe and are a threat to Britain, only then will the anti-Israel protests stop because only then will people like you understand what it is to have Islamic extremists next door. Unfortunately, that day doesn't seem to be too far off.

when Israel commits mass murder that some people,
Strange how bad they are at committing mass murder being possibly the 4th or 5th most powerful army in the World. Sending leaflets warning people to evacuate isn't usually a strategy used by those attempting to commit mass murder either.

Do not bring the argument of proportionate response because since when has war ever been proportionate? There has never been a battle of 'you send one rocket and I'll send one back'. Unfortunately civilians always lose out the most from war but Hamas have time and time again failed to keep to the ceasefires.

The abomination in this conflict is how Hamas a recognised terrorist group voted in by the people of Gaza use their own people as human shields and continue to send rockets into residential areas in Israel aiming for civilians. They also carry out extrajudicial executions whenever they please. Furthermore they prohibit residents from leaving their homes after being warned by the IAF that their building is a target. All these war crimes are just part of a long list that Hamas have committed against the Palestinian people and Israel.
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Post by 1 Bobby Hazell » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:50 pm

avigar wrote:
deepseahoop wrote:Talking of silence Avigar I guess Bobby answered your question... 8)
DSH perhaps the reason for the silence lies in the fact that I have more to life outside qprdot.org :wink:

Secondly, the point I am trying to make isn't coming to defend the Israeli Military's Actions as that is another discussion entirely. What I'm trying to highlight is that I believe people like you feel more hate towards the State of Israel than that towards barbaric terrorist organisations such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Hizbollah, HAMAS and so many others who commit mass murder.

Whilst I understand your point as to why there are no heated discussions concerning these terror groups on these forums, I really do not comprehend how people are more disturbed by how Israel defends itself against it's neighbouring Islamic extremists, than by how these Islamic fundamentalists are murdering innocent civilians from their own countries.

The Media thinks the same way... The BBC the other day summarises it all. It's main headline stated that Israeli airstrikes had continued throughout the night killing 9 people (including 3 top Hamas commanders). The 2nd headline reported that ISIS had massacred a Yazidi village where the death toll is believed to have been approximately 80!

Even today in the BBC website in middle news category. 1st headline is "at least 2 Palestinians in Gaza killed". 2nd headline "at least 9 people killed in suicide bomb in Baghdad"...

Lets be honest Israeli aggression is what the people want to know about, that is more appealing. Why are there no mass demonstrations against these terror and rebel group's actions. "More than 191,000 people have now been killed in the three-year-old Syrian conflict up to April, the UN says". When was the last protest march against them?

Nevertheless, protests against Israel draws hundreds of thousands. Money down that if an anti Hamas/anti ISIS rally was organised, you wouldn't get the same numbers.

I believe that the day ISIS and these other terrorist groups reach Europe and are a threat to Britain, only then will the anti-Israel protests stop because only then will people like you understand what it is to have Islamic extremists next door. Unfortunately, that day doesn't seem to be too far off.

when Israel commits mass murder that some people,
Strange how bad they are at committing mass murder being possibly the 4th or 5th most powerful army in the World. Sending leaflets warning people to evacuate isn't usually a strategy used by those attempting to commit mass murder either.

Do not bring the argument of proportionate response because since when has war ever been proportionate? There has never been a battle of 'you send one rocket and I'll send one back'. Unfortunately civilians always lose out the most from war but Hamas have time and time again failed to keep to the ceasefires.

The abomination in this conflict is how Hamas a recognised terrorist group voted in by the people of Gaza use their own people as human shields and continue to send rockets into residential areas in Israel aiming for civilians. They also carry out extrajudicial executions whenever they please. Furthermore they prohibit residents from leaving their homes after being warned by the IAF that their building is a target. All these war crimes are just part of a long list that Hamas have committed against the Palestinian people and Israel.
You seem to have completely misunderstood or been unable (unwilling) to comprehend my points.

First of all this "What I'm trying to highlight is that I believe people like you feel more hate towards the State of Israel than that towards barbaric terrorist organisations such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Hizbollah, HAMAS and so many others who commit mass murder."

No hate coming from me brother, I suspect, and I admit I may be wrong, that any hatred around here is yours towards your 'opposistion'. If you want to re read my original reply and actually take a moment to turn off the deeply ingrained programming you have/continue to receive and self reflect you might start to get an inkling of what part of your own mentality is one of the acceptance/requirement of violence. As I stated previously that justification/call for violence is what fuels and feeds the parties that really want to keep this thing going (develop it in fact) on both sides. Only when enough people realise that, remove their fear and hatred and stop listening to these leaders will there be any chance of peace.

Then this -
"Lets be honest Israeli aggression is what the people want to know about, that is more appealing. Why are there no mass demonstrations against these terror and rebel group's actions. "More than 191,000 people have now been killed in the three-year-old Syrian conflict up to April, the UN says". When was the last protest march against them?"

I have answered this question with what I consider to be intelligence, honesty and precision. Why the need to ask it again as though I hadn't thoroughly replied? It seems to be cognitive dissonance on your part, an inability to accept (or even acknowledge the existence of) some fairly obvious and logical information that clearly shows the inaccuracies in your preprogrammed view. I'm assuming your assumptions of 'hate' also play a part in this.

You claim early in your post that you haven't come to defend Israeli Military action and that that is for another thread and yet your last 3 paragraphs are NOTHING but an attempt to do exactly that.

It isn't a 'war' it is a US funded occupation.

I find your last paragraph very sad and, I don't mind admitting rather disheartening. Blaming Hamas for using people as shields from ISRAELI BOMBS!! Israel is doing the killing. Do you have much evidence of Palestinians explaining this act going on or was this a quote from an Israeli? Israel are committing the crimes there, that much is clear. As they have done for years, ignoring DOZENS of UN resolutions against them. The Human Rights Council has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined. You defend this but actually think people like me have a charge to answer to or are somehow in the wrong because we question your fundamentalism. Brother, how far down the rabbit hole have you gone!?

It is exactly the sort of mentality that I try to highlight in my first post about having a very warped mentality, driven of course by fear (ISIS on its way to Europe!) and hatred. You are firmly entrenched in the 'them or us' mentality and your fear of your own and/or your tribes safety leads you to support acts that deep in your soul you know are barbarous, whilst complainig vociferously about far lesser acts inflicted on your 'tribe'. You are not alone and given that so, so many more of 'them' have died means that there will be plenty of people on the other side who feel the same way. As I said previously only when those on both sides think differently will peace really happen. I'm not saying that will be easy, the programming and information fed to both sides to create mentalities like yours is strong. The crazy cleric, the rabid Fox News host, the opportunist fundamentalist using pictures of Gaza's dead children to recruit, the massively US funded Israeli Military PR machine and its plethora of websites etc etc etc. You are all being kept locked in a mental prison of 'more violence, we're not safe, more violence, we're not safe, more violence....'

Quite where it could lead now is more concerning than ever. As I have said in the past I am in no doubt that Israel is being used by the US and will be sacrificed to some extent or another when certain destabilisation objectives have been achieved.

We have to work hard for peace. It starts inside. Fear is your enemy. Question your leaders. Love is the key.
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Post by avigar » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:51 pm

You claim early in your post that you haven't come to defend Israeli Military action and that that is for another thread and yet your last 3 paragraphs are NOTHING but an attempt to do exactly that.
What I meant is that my 1st post on the thread wasn't intended in defending the IDF's actions. I had no intentions in discussing this but the reason I have is because you don't stop referring to Israeli war crimes time and time again. But I do apologise for mixing topics.



Blaming Hamas for using people as shields from ISRAELI BOMBS!! Israel is doing the killing.
It is the duty of the State of Israel to protect its people. The moment Hamas send one rocket into Israeli territories, a response is necessary. Theoretically diplomacy is the way forward but Hamas' charter is nonnegotiable as they demand the absolution of the State of Israel. They aren't even looking for compromises.

The moment Israel detected tunnels deep into Israeli borders with its roots in Gaza, an infantry invasion was unavoidable. The Israeli Intelligence discovered that Hamas had plans to infiltrate Israel and carry out terrorist attacks all over the country. Netanyahu was left without any choice but to order a ground invasion which unfortunately causes there to be many casualties. The moment the mission had been completed Israel withdrew all their troops.

I doubt the Israelis are looking to have more enemies than they already have. It doesn't help their case when the world's Media opposes every decision they make. Nevertheless, defending its citizens is number one on its agenda. If they could solve the problem without the use of their Air Force, I'm sure this alternative option would be used.

We both know that peace talks is the way forward but if one side isn't willing to keep to its side of the bargain then in the long term that isn't the solution. Rather than just criticise the IDF's actions why don't you provide a solution to this conflict? At least suggest what course of action the Israeli Armed Forces should take to defend its people and abolish the threat without causing any civilian casualties.







By the way here is the evidence you asked for and I can bring you many many more links or you can google it yourself... To enlighten those who may have harbored any doubts:

"Fathi Ahmad Hammad, member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, said it loud and said it proud: Palestinians deliberately use women and children as human shields.

This is the transcript of his remarks:

[The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."
Hammad is a leader of the Izzedeen al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, and in 2006 was elected to the Palestinian Parliament as a Hamas representative. He is also director of Al-Aqsa TV, which aired his comments on February 29."


It isn't surprising that there aren't many Palestinians speaking publicly about the atrocities that Hamas are committing. I dare you to watch some youtube videos of how Hamas treat collaborators and anyone who publicly speaks out against them.
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