I will be the first!

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ZENITH R
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Re: I will be the first!

Post by ZENITH R » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:01 pm

Systemsguy wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:12 pm
Read an interesting article today from Clint Hill from May this year about his time with Warbs at Rangers and the lack of defensive training around set pieces...... Sounds familiar with the possession game we like to play (Plan A)

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... g-22010807

That makes interesting reading. If it's also happening here and now, then it will only be a matter of time before Mark Warburton is replaced. There is a real sense of inevitability about that, if the manager isn't doing any defensive training, and we continue to be as porous as a fishing net at the back.

Perhaps, more importantly it would demonstrate an inability for the man at the top to learn from his mistakes.
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Re: I will be the first!

Post by W12Allstars » Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:29 am

Oh dear. That article doesn’t make great reading but would explain a lot.

If it’s still the case, I’d like him gone now as things are not going to improve if you’re not doing any defensive training. I’d also question the judgment of whoever employed him as a bit of research should have flagged this up as plain daft before we offered him the job!
Far better is it to dare mighty things, than to dwell in the twighlight that knows neither victory nor defeat - T Roosevelt

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by Damien » Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:00 pm

W12Allstars wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:29 am
Oh dear. That article doesn’t make great reading but would explain a lot.

If it’s still the case, I’d like him gone now as things are not going to improve if you’re not doing any defensive training. I’d also question the judgment of whoever employed him as a bit of research should have flagged this up as plain daft before we offered him the job!
Agree. He is toast now, but whoever signed these players needs to go as well. Shame we can't sack the gobshites on the pitch who aren't fit to wear the shirt TBH.Worst QPR team I've seen in 40 plus years of support.

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by 222gers » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:40 pm

It's all very depressing. It was only just a year ago I remember sitting in a pub with my in-laws on holiday telling them things looked good for the Rangers. About half a dozen exciting young players and a manager who believed in stylish attacking football.
Now it's all gone to pot. A good fee obtained from the Eze transfer but sod all for Manning, probably sod all for BOS and the others out on loan.
I imagine we'll end up with a few ageing loan players in the New Year. How has it all collapsed so spectacularly ?

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by jimjams » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:30 am

Team is beginning to remind me of the Mark Hughes team during the disaster season. Getting nothing despite some good performances against good teams, and then also getting nothing from some crap performances against crap teams, followed by crap performances against good teams that also, predictably, result in no points.
Whatever your football philosophy, at some point you have to kick it in the goal. Like the Mark Hughes team, watching the team at the moment, there doesn't seem to be any discernible plan for doing that, apart from "pass it about and hope something comes up".
I don't think recruitment has been "a scandal," it's the directionless tactics that are hurting us.
I like Mark Warburton, but really he doesn't have long before his position becomes untenable. I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone within a week.

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by beaglebum » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:06 pm

Admitedly i havent read all the posts in this thread but the sad thing is, covid and the financial impact is hurting a small club like ours. We lost so many experienced loan players from last season and Dykes, Bonne and Wilock as yet have not shown they can score in front of goal. The curse of QPR seems to be cast over them like it was with Washington, Sheron, Hately and countless others. Our squad is young and inexperienced and i don't know 1/2 the names on our bench most games. And the better players we have, BOS, Cameron, Barbet aren't really playing like we need them to. Yet what options does Warburton or any potential new manager have to change it around in the January transfer window when there is possibly no money on the table? I honestly don't know.

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by 222gers » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:00 pm

jimjams wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:30 am
Team is beginning to remind me of the Mark Hughes team during the disaster season. Getting nothing despite some good performances against good teams, and then also getting nothing from some crap performances against crap teams, followed by crap performances against good teams that also, predictably, result in no points.
Whatever your football philosophy, at some point you have to kick it in the goal. Like the Mark Hughes team, watching the team at the moment, there doesn't seem to be any discernible plan for doing that, apart from "pass it about and hope something comes up".
I don't think recruitment has been "a scandal," it's the directionless tactics that are hurting us.
I like Mark Warburton, but really he doesn't have long before his position becomes untenable. I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone within a week.
It'd be tough if they've given MW one more game to change things given Norwich away is about as murderous as it gets. I honestly don't know what prospective manager would come here with a disjointed squad and no real money available for transfers.

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by jimjams » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 am

222gers wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:00 pm
It'd be tough if they've given MW one more game to change things given Norwich away is about as murderous as it gets. I honestly don't know what prospective manager would come here with a disjointed squad and no real money available for transfers.
It's not what I'd do (I'd give him until Wycombe or so), but I was more imagining him being told a couple of weeks ago that we need to get a win by the end of the year, rather than being given a one-match ultimatum.
I do wonder if he has suffered somewhat for making the right decisions (eg, if you distanced properly in lockdown, you didn't train as effectively; If you trained hard at the beginning of the season, it would give you an early advantage, but the team could be knackered by February).

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by Andy_N19 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:58 pm

jimjams wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:30 am
I don't think recruitment has been "a scandal,"
The recruitment has been a humungus scandal. Dykes & Bonne being the obvious culprits.
The system Warburton employs is credible since we only lose by the odd goal and not tonked,
but look at last night, we had 2 "strikers" on the pitch who couldn't hit a cows ar$e with a banjo.

Bonne is arguably the worse forward I've ever seen at Loftus Road, the other guy ain't far behind.
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Re: I will be the first!

Post by n22hoop » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:11 pm

Andy_N19 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:58 pm
jimjams wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:30 am
I don't think recruitment has been "a scandal,"
The recruitment has been a humungus scandal. Dykes & Bonne being the obvious culprits.
The system Warburton employs is credible since we only lose by the odd goal and not tonked,
but look at last night, we had 2 "strikers" on the pitch who couldn't hit a cows ar$e with a banjo.

Bonne is arguably the worse forward I've ever seen at Loftus Road, the other guy ain't far behind.
So we're goal shy, it hardly makes our recruitment a scandal. Dickie is a new recruit and plays in the heart of defence. He's doing ok isn't he?

I don't see how you can defend the system being played. It isn't working for the players we've got. It's up to the manager / coach to find the best system for the available talent. Passing the ball around in the middle of the pitch is only a credible system if possession is your definition of success. Alas football works differently to that.
"Football is the love of form. A spectacle that scarcely leaves a trace in the memory and does not enrich or impoverish knowledge. This is its appeal : it is exciting and empty." Mario Vargas Llosa

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by Andy_N19 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:44 pm

I agree with you in large part, not sure I explained properly, the system means that we can nab
a point at places like Norwich, but the personnel aren't up to it.
Dickie is a huge plus for us and again played well yesterday, but scoring goals is the thing,
I've hammered the front 2 enough but others aren't good enough, misplaced passes, clumsy
tackles. Kane, Cameron, Barbet, Ball come to mind.

Something's definitely fishy at HQ as I've heard and if Warburton walks the plank can he be
the only one to blame for getting only 4 points from a possible 27 in the last 9 games?
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Re: I will be the first!

Post by ZENITH R » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Andy_N19 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:44 pm
I agree with you in large part, not sure I explained properly, the system means that we can nab
a point at places like Norwich, but the personnel aren't up to it.
Dickie is a huge plus for us and again played well yesterday, but scoring goals is the thing,
I've hammered the front 2 enough but others aren't good enough, misplaced passes, clumsy
tackles. Kane, Cameron, Barbet, Ball come to mind.

Something's definitely fishy at HQ as I've heard and if Warburton walks the plank can he be
the only one to blame for getting only 4 points from a possible 27 in the last 9 games?
Well, he picks the team - thankfully the Briatore days are behind us. He also makes decisions relating to the philosophy, style of play, formation and tactics.

We gave away another cheap penalty last night - our 6th of the season (all scored), and last season we gave away 11, with only Bamford missing his kick. That's 17 in one and a half seasons. I would expect the manager to be addressing that with the defence. Stay on your feet, don't give the forward the opportunity to go down, or the referee the opportunity to make the decision. This particularly when the forward is going nowhere, and therefore not posing a massive threat (as was the case last night). The Clint Hill article said MW didn't focus on defending at Glasgow Rangers. Well, I don't go to training sessions at QPR so couldn't say if that's the same for us, but the evidence on the pitch suggests it might be. In which case - on his own head be it.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
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Growing up is optional.

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by deadendjob » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:37 pm

The thing to remember here is that we're a club trying to stave off administration after we overspent for years. Subsequently, we have had to develop younger players, purchase cheaper players who have been outcast by larger clubs or from lower & non-English league's and hope they will not only perform at Championship level, but generate a profit.
We're taking a punt on player's each season and hoping they will fit into this model. We've done this before with older more expensive players who looked good on paper and wound up being duds, so it stands to reason we're not going to get all of them right.

These ideologies have worked for other clubs (mostly with better resources and facilities), but we're a small club who haven't invested in our grossly outdated facilities for decades and have been left behind while we are focusing on trying to become sustainable.

Last season we overachieved, but we had the luxury of a creative player in Eze - whom we got as an outcast and was a hidden gem. Players of his ilk are usually picked up by larger clubs early on in their career, so we were incredibly fortunate to have given him the chance. Not every player is going to be an Eze, some will take time to develop like he did and as fans we need to learn to be patient.
His money has been invested in the squad, but even then the squad has been under-invested in previously due to FFP (ie we loaned all our strikers last season ffs).

Ultimately, as a club we have poor facilities, a FFP fine and limited resources. We have a manager who is working within these constraints and struggling as most would. We're not attractive to young talented players or top managers while we're rebuilding and as such,
this season we're exactly where to be expected: scrapping it out down the lower end of the table.

I don't think MWs doing everything right, but given the circumstances, I think overall he's doing OK which is what we need while we get our house in order. Throwing money at a new manager everytime things don't go or way is only going to delay us further on advancing as a club.
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Re: I will be the first!

Post by QPR-NI » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:50 pm

What you’re saying is true, but it doesn’t excuse the same tactics being used week in and week out, and continually failing.

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Re: I will be the first!

Post by W12Allstars » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:23 am

And the apparent lack of defensive coaching.

Surely that’s even more important if we’re on such a tight budget with limited players? Good coaching could be the one thing that should improve our chances.
Far better is it to dare mighty things, than to dwell in the twighlight that knows neither victory nor defeat - T Roosevelt

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