Taking a knee

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Systemsguy
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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Systemsguy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:39 am

UxbridgeR wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:22 am
How many other Ben Shapiro fans do we have on this board ?
Who is Ben Shapiro?

I actually looked it up so don't bother.... Your wasted on here UxR you really are
2020/2021.... Keep Calm, no matter the season, we'll follow our team.....

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Satch » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:20 pm

Lee Gib wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:01 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:23 pm
With an All Lives Matter guy ? I wouldn't waste my breath.
2020. The year when suggesting that all lives are of equal value is seen as a negative.
2020, when people dismiss people's concerns over racial injustice by implying the cause is divisive, supremacist or unnecessary. No one is suggesting the black lives take precedence, simply to achieve the mantra of all lives mattering we need to address the inequality people of colour face on a consistent basis. Something many people refuse to accept is required.

Personally i would have liked the club to continue the gesture not least to demonstrate to so many of our own fans who prior to this statement thought us no longer kneeling was a victory for 'all lives matter'. However, I'd certainly not argue with Ferdinand on what is the right approach. I do wish we'd stated our position proactively so everyone understood the motives behind the decision and to further the public discourse on the matter constructively without us being such a big part of the story.

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Esox Lucius » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:21 pm

BAME peoples aren't asking for superiority, they just want equality so that it does become all lives matter. There wasn't this much outrage when the WWF proclaimed Save The Whale. There was no All Animals Matter because not all animals were under threat of extinction. This to be taken analogously, not literally as I am well aware that BAME people are not under threat of extinction.
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Re: Taking a knee

Post by deadendjob » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:23 pm

Wegerle wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:24 am
This thread is a perfect example of why you shouldn't drag politics and highly inflamable social issues into football.
We all have different views on social issues and politics. No one has all the wisdom or all the right answers. What is wrong for one person is right for the other.
There are times and places to discuss racism, homophobia, gender inequality etc. Kneeling down in a football stadium filled with 14.000 unique and different views won't help the cause.No one is suddenly going to change their mind on the whole issue. Also we should then start a kneel down against all other moral injustices which can be just as bad otherwise other groups will feel discriminated by the fact that their agenda is not being equally attended to. Where do you draw the line on this slippery slope?

Football is a day out for people, a couple of hours off from all the daily slog. Fans shouldn't have to be confronted with all kinds of opinions and agendas; they will have that done a plenty in daily life.

Giving racists a life time ban and hefty fine and then publicly explaining how, why and what will do the cause much more good in my opinion. But then again there are likely to be many more different opinions. :wink:
I feel this post is a little contradictory. You start off saying that we should keep politics/social issues out of football, then go onto offering an opinion, then move onto talking about how you don't like racism?
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Re: Taking a knee

Post by deadendjob » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:33 pm

The thing I think people need to understand is that small changes make revolutions. The fact that because the players are taking a kneel on the pitch to highlight that they are united against racism, irrespective or not if they've been forced to by the league/club etc, still achieves the goal it was set out to do; which was highlight that racism is prevalent within society and that we need to first of all recognize that it's an issue, so we can unite to overcome it.
I mean, we're talking about it aren't we?

What they're doing is a very minor gesture at the start of the game, so I'm not sure why this is even really a discussion or why people are getting so worked up about it. If they were having a full on-pitch parade or interrupting the match to do something, then I can see the complaint. Taking a knee is similar to the national anthem - it's at the start of the game and you can just commence watching the match after it if it bores you/bothers you that much.
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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Systemsguy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:45 pm

deadendjob wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:33 pm
The thing I think people need to understand is that small changes make revolutions. The fact that because the players are taking a kneel on the pitch to highlight that they are united against racism, irrespective or not if they've been forced to by the league/club etc, still achieves the goal it was set out to do; which was highlight that racism is prevalent within society and that we need to first of all recognize that it's an issue, so we can unite to overcome it.
I mean, we're talking about it aren't we?

What they're doing is a very minor gesture at the start of the game, so I'm not sure why this is even really a discussion or why people are getting so worked up about it. If they were having a full on-pitch parade or interrupting the match to do something, then I can see the complaint. Taking a knee is similar to the national anthem - it's at the start of the game and you can just commence watching the match after it if it bores you/bothers you that much.
Simply read the statement of the club on not "taking the knee" which I think has virtually universal approval apart from Sky Sports (please correct me if I'm wrong).
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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Montag » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:54 pm

Anyone ever seen or read "The Crucible"?
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by WA Hoop » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:29 am

Montag wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Anyone ever seen or read "The Crucible"?
Not really much of a snooker fan these days. :wink:


...in reality my son has just read it for English Lit and for my part, I once visited Salem.
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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Satch » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:23 am

Systemsguy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:45 pm
deadendjob wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:33 pm
The thing I think people need to understand is that small changes make revolutions. The fact that because the players are taking a kneel on the pitch to highlight that they are united against racism, irrespective or not if they've been forced to by the league/club etc, still achieves the goal it was set out to do; which was highlight that racism is prevalent within society and that we need to first of all recognize that it's an issue, so we can unite to overcome it.
I mean, we're talking about it aren't we?

What they're doing is a very minor gesture at the start of the game, so I'm not sure why this is even really a discussion or why people are getting so worked up about it. If they were having a full on-pitch parade or interrupting the match to do something, then I can see the complaint. Taking a knee is similar to the national anthem - it's at the start of the game and you can just commence watching the match after it if it bores you/bothers you that much.
Simply read the statement of the club on not "taking the knee" which I think has virtually universal approval apart from Sky Sports (please correct me if I'm wrong).
what have sky said?

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Montag » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:30 pm

WA Hoop wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:29 am
Montag wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:54 pm
Anyone ever seen or read "The Crucible"?
Not really much of a snooker fan these days. :wink:


...in reality my son has just read it for English Lit and for my part, I once visited Salem.
You know where I'm coming from, then. They say if you live long enough, you'll see everything. Great play, though.
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Montag » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:18 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:43 am
DroopStreetOldBoys wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:52 am
Systemsguy wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:54 pm


Really Ux?

It's not well supported by the majority of fans and will likely be booed....
Who told you that? Polls show overwhelming support for BLM in 18-24 year olds, people still in education and those with degrees. It's true that support amongst the over 65s (they should be staying home anyway) and the uneducated was much much lower, but even then, not supporting isn't the same as opposing. There may well be a bunch of right-wing numpties booing though.
This ^^^
The 18-24 year olds? The same group (Not all) that are largely responsible for the coming new wave of Covid 19? According to official figures. aniclap
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by DroopStreetOldBoys » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:33 am

Montag wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:18 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:43 am
DroopStreetOldBoys wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:52 am


Who told you that? Polls show overwhelming support for BLM in 18-24 year olds, people still in education and those with degrees. It's true that support amongst the over 65s (they should be staying home anyway) and the uneducated was much much lower, but even then, not supporting isn't the same as opposing. There may well be a bunch of right-wing numpties booing though.
This ^^^
The 18-24 year olds? The same group (Not all) that are largely responsible for the coming new wave of Covid 19? According to official figures. aniclap
There is no way of knowing if it is the same group, nobody has done a correlatory study, because that would be pointless. Not sure that supporting a witch hunt started by this "government" against a group of people who make up a huge part of front line workers - care workers, shop workers, hospitality staff etc and have just been encouraged to go out, spend your vouchers, go back to work, attend lectures etc is helpful. Have you read the crucible? you know, the play critical of the anti-communist witch hunts in the USA?

Oh, women aged 20 to 40 are being hit harder by this wave, mainly because they too tend to be doing similar front facing jobs, have a pop at them too.

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by Montag » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:10 pm

Illegal raves, parties and protests are more my mind than the people doing essential jobs who are unlikely to take risks. Unnecessary contact is my point. Schools/Unies returning is a big issue too. Or will be soon.
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by dm » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:29 pm

Johnson and his cabinet are doing all they can to set up a very small section of society to blame for the increase in the R rate. There can be little doubt it is to deflect from the continuing incompetencies of this Government in dealing with the pandemic.

When the current measures they've just put in place fail to work, the Government will not admit fault but blame a few 16 years olds. Utterly despicable.

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Re: Taking a knee

Post by 222gers » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:01 pm

dm wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:29 pm
Johnson and his cabinet are doing all they can to set up a very small section of society to blame for the increase in the R rate. There can be little doubt it is to deflect from the continuing incompetencies of this Government in dealing with the pandemic.

When the current measures they've just put in place fail to work, the Government will not admit fault but blame a few 16 years olds. Utterly despicable.
I am in broad agreement. We'll never know how this would have panned out if the govt had locked down earlier but I think they have to get the gravity of the situation across now.
I've seen people of all age groups not adhering to the rules, the last thing we need is friction between generations.

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