Charlton match...

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Satch
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Satch » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:58 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:27 pm
Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:13 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:31 pm
Colin said he did not want the job when he was caretaker manager (when Ferdinand was there) possibly as a result of his experiences the first time.
“With a bit of persuasion, I would have stayed there. But after we won at Reading, [director of football] Les Ferdinand came into the dressing room and told me that they were appointing Jimmy the next day. It was a bolt out of the blue and I was a bit disappointed but I enjoyed that time so much and I took another job at Rotherham.”

Anyway, at least we replaced him with a Championship specialist. shifty

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 77581.html
Ah yes, Neil "this is definitely my last job in football" Warnock. Famous for his honesty and no bullshit approach.
He was very clear he wasn't interested in the job so he was either disingenuous then or latter. Even if it's the former then it's not clear what that persuasion would have been but we could probably guess.

Warnock has a decent record of getting teams out of trouble and decent record of getting teams up. There is no evidence he's good at taking a club through a lengthy transition period with a very limited budget, he's the ultimate quick fix and the club have finally realised that isn't going to work for us. Even if we'd appointed him then i don't believe for a second we'd have been promoted or he would be here now.

The club is now better run that it has been in a long time, alas that isn't compatible with instant success however we've got: a slashed wage bill, modest fees for players rather than losses and more salable assets and promising youngsters than we've had in some time.

Given the absolute disseray we were in when Ferdinand and Hoos took over i think they've done a pretty good job. Obviously they need to continue to improve.

Last two games have been appalling. MW needs to get a response out of them even if there isn't much to play for a couple of players are likely to be off.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 pm

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:30 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am
The fact that Warnock was past retirement age in 2015 (he turned 67 while he was with us) whereas Hasselbaink was in his early 40's almost certainly had something to do with it. Hasselbaink had been successful at Burton, so a reasonable decision at the time. I seem to recall lots of calls for some long term planning at the time, rather than a short term appointment. Wasn't his wife (NW's) diagnosed with cancer about that time too? Of course football management isn't an exact science - Clough was a disaster at Leeds for example. With hindsight (which is a wonderful thing) the decision to sack Warnock in 2012 was where the error occured. That was again pre- Ferdinand and Hoos. But hey ho. I have no idea what motivates Neil Warnock to continue being a football manager in his 71st year. Most people would be wanting to relax and spend time with their grandchildren. He is the exception rather than the rule.
Ferdinand was made Director of Football by Fernandes as a sop to the supporters, and to be fair, it seems to have worked. As a former playing legend, he receives far less criticism than someone without that background. As an example, at last week's fans forum, he was asked about his failure to find a decent striker and replied by saying how tough it is to find strikers in the current market. Okay fine, it may be, but after FIVE YEARS? Wouldn't you expect a Director of Football to have found us at least a couple of decent strikers somewhere in the world during that period, particularly as we had parachute payments for the majority of the time? And that's a perfect example of why we are where we are, miles behind Brentford ffs, because Uncle Bungle craftily appointed a fan favourite rather than someone who could actually do the job properly.
This season:

Nahki Wells - 15 goals in 5 months.
Jordan Hugill - 13 goals
Eberechi Eze - 12 goals

67 goals in 43 games from the whole team - only three other teams in the Championship have scored more.

No one was interested in Wells until he scored that hat trick against Cardiff. We don't have a pot to piss in, so we have to use loans, that seems to have worked quite well this season.

Doing the job properly? Cutting the debt, developing players from our youth system, finding players like Eze and BOS and developing them into saleable assets, while getting us the fans excited and feeling good about the team again.

Your use of 'Uncle Bungle' shows the weakness in your argument - you have to resort to petty name calling, because the facts destroy everything you write over and over again.

You don't like Ferdinand or Hoos - I get that, but bloody hell, they are turning things round and getting us moving in the right direction. If you can't see that, well .... As for Hoos and Ferdinand, despite your not liking them, their stock is rising, and though you can't see it, they are doing a good job.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:17 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 pm
This season:

Nahki Wells - 15 goals in 5 months.
Jordan Hugill - 13 goals
Eberechi Eze - 12 goals

67 goals in 43 games from the whole team - only three other teams in the Championship have scored more.

No one was interested in Wells until he scored that hat trick against Cardiff. We don't have a pot to piss in, so we have to use loans, that seems to have worked quite well this season.
Neither Wells nor Hugill is actually our player though, as evidenced by one of them leaving at a critical juncture of the season. Eze is a midfielder, rather than a striker. As I said, why hasn't our DoF found us a decent striker after so many years in the role? Isn't that the point of his role?

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Satch » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:53 am

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:17 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 pm
This season:

Nahki Wells - 15 goals in 5 months.
Jordan Hugill - 13 goals
Eberechi Eze - 12 goals

67 goals in 43 games from the whole team - only three other teams in the Championship have scored more.

No one was interested in Wells until he scored that hat trick against Cardiff. We don't have a pot to piss in, so we have to use loans, that seems to have worked quite well this season.
Neither Wells nor Hugill is actually our player though, as evidenced by one of them leaving at a critical juncture of the season. Eze is a midfielder, rather than a striker. As I said, why hasn't our DoF found us a decent striker after so many years in the role? Isn't that the point of his role?
No, his role is to find us quality players across the entire squad which actually he's not done a bad job of. Why are you so unwilling to give any credit? Brentford are the outlier in their ability to continuously find talent on the cheap and i'm sure we're looking at how we can emulate that but strikers are a rare commodity so it's no surprise we've yet to find a bargain.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 am

Satch wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:53 am
No, his role is to find us quality players across the entire squad which actually he's not done a bad job of. Why are you so unwilling to give any credit? Brentford are the outlier in their ability to continuously find talent on the cheap and i'm sure we're looking at how we can emulate that but strikers are a rare commodity so it's no surprise we've yet to find a bargain.
To me, he botched the key decision he needed to make (i.e. keeping Warnock), wasted a load of parachute payments on substandard players and has failed to develop the squad adequately (poor defence, no strikers) considering he's been in the role for more than five years. My main point is that he was appointed to alleviate the pressure on Fernandes as he gets away with a lot because of his history with us as a player. A professionally run club does not appoint a novice to an important role like DoF and let them 'learn on the job', but then we're not a professionally run club as shown by the last two games. Anyway, I'm only going to disagree with people regarding this so I'll shut up.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by loonee » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 am

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 am
Satch wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:53 am
No, his role is to find us quality players across the entire squad which actually he's not done a bad job of. Why are you so unwilling to give any credit? Brentford are the outlier in their ability to continuously find talent on the cheap and i'm sure we're looking at how we can emulate that but strikers are a rare commodity so it's no surprise we've yet to find a bargain.
To me, he botched the key decision he needed to make (i.e. keeping Warnock), wasted a load of parachute payments on substandard players and has failed to develop the squad adequately (poor defence, no strikers) considering he's been in the role for more than five years. My main point is that he was appointed to alleviate the pressure on Fernandes as he gets away with a lot because of his history with us as a player. A professionally run club does not appoint a novice to an important role like DoF and let them 'learn on the job', but then we're not a professionally run club as shown by the last two games. Anyway, I'm only going to disagree with people regarding this so I'll shut up.
Until next time!!

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:04 am

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 am
Satch wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:53 am
No, his role is to find us quality players across the entire squad which actually he's not done a bad job of. Why are you so unwilling to give any credit? Brentford are the outlier in their ability to continuously find talent on the cheap and i'm sure we're looking at how we can emulate that but strikers are a rare commodity so it's no surprise we've yet to find a bargain.
To me, he botched the key decision he needed to make (i.e. keeping Warnock), wasted a load of parachute payments on substandard players and has failed to develop the squad adequately (poor defence, no strikers) considering he's been in the role for more than five years. My main point is that he was appointed to alleviate the pressure on Fernandes as he gets away with a lot because of his history with us as a player. A professionally run club does not appoint a novice to an important role like DoF and let them 'learn on the job', but then we're not a professionally run club as shown by the last two games. Anyway, I'm only going to disagree with people regarding this so I'll shut up.
A novice who the FA tried to recruit for the England set up on the back of his work at QPR.

Warnock ... Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time Warnock was saying "this will be my last job in football" - something he said on appointment and leaving jobs at: QPR (first time), Leeds, Palace, Rotherham, Cardiff and now Middlesbrough. A football team needs stability, and appointing a pensioner is not going to give you that. As I say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but at the time appointing a successful young manager seemed like a bold move that had it come off we would have said was a stroke of genius. Of course it didn't but no one could have known that when the decision was made.

As for that decision, it was five years ago - time to let it go. Or are you saying you have never made a decision either professionally or privately that with the benefit of hindsight you wish you hadn't? Is anyone still giving you grief over your decisions? No one is disputing that mistakes were made. Crikey - we spunked millions up the wall and have nothing to show for it, and the shadow of that poor financial management is still over us today. But, things are improving. One last example - last week the stats on how much Championship clubs had paid to agents was published. In the past QPR have topped that list and then some - we weren't anywhere near the top this time, not even in the top half. That has to be a good thing, and it has to be down to Hoos and Ferdinand.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is optional.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:43 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:04 am

Warnock ... Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time Warnock was saying "this will be my last job in football" - something he said on appointment and leaving jobs at: QPR (first time), Leeds, Palace, Rotherham, Cardiff and now Middlesbrough. A football team needs stability, and appointing a pensioner is not going to give you that. As I say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but at the time appointing a successful young manager seemed like a bold move that had it come off we would have said was a stroke of genius. Of course it didn't but no one could have known that when the decision was made.

As for that decision, it was five years ago - time to let it go. Or are you saying you have never made a decision either professionally or privately that with the benefit of hindsight you wish you hadn't? Is anyone still giving you grief over your decisions? No one is disputing that mistakes were made. Crikey - we spunked millions up the wall and have nothing to show for it, and the shadow of that poor financial management is still over us today. But, things are improving. One last example - last week the stats on how much Championship clubs had paid to agents was published. In the past QPR have topped that list and then some - we weren't anywhere near the top this time, not even in the top half. That has to be a good thing, and it has to be down to Hoos and Ferdinand.
Like the ghost at the feast, the decision will continue to haunt us for as long as Warnock shows why he was the best man for the job in this league, irrespective of age or supposed longevity.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:55 am

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:43 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:04 am

Warnock ... Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time Warnock was saying "this will be my last job in football" - something he said on appointment and leaving jobs at: QPR (first time), Leeds, Palace, Rotherham, Cardiff and now Middlesbrough. A football team needs stability, and appointing a pensioner is not going to give you that. As I say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but at the time appointing a successful young manager seemed like a bold move that had it come off we would have said was a stroke of genius. Of course it didn't but no one could have known that when the decision was made.

As for that decision, it was five years ago - time to let it go. Or are you saying you have never made a decision either professionally or privately that with the benefit of hindsight you wish you hadn't? Is anyone still giving you grief over your decisions? No one is disputing that mistakes were made. Crikey - we spunked millions up the wall and have nothing to show for it, and the shadow of that poor financial management is still over us today. But, things are improving. One last example - last week the stats on how much Championship clubs had paid to agents was published. In the past QPR have topped that list and then some - we weren't anywhere near the top this time, not even in the top half. That has to be a good thing, and it has to be down to Hoos and Ferdinand.
Like the ghost at the feast, the decision will continue to haunt us for as long as Warnock shows why he was the best man for the job in this league, irrespective of age or supposed longevity.

Well he 'aint coming back, so time to let it go.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is optional.

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