Charlton match...

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:35 pm

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:04 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:19 pm
Whereas you continue to heroically hold the board and the management team to account by [checks notes] sniping periodically at other fans on message boards. Really sticking it to the man there, Albert. I bet you used to skip your fares on the bus too, back in the day. Keep fighting the good fight.
The last two performances are what our happy-clapping fanbase deserves. What are the excuses for struggling to muster a shot against two of the worst sides in the division? They have even less money than we do - and Charlton's board were even worse than ours.

I see that Warnock is already doing what he does at Boro - of course he wasn't good enough for Ferdinand, was he? Why are you so accepting of this persistent mediocrity? I honestly can't see us getting another point this season.
Football has a way of surprising you ... which is why we love it. We've lost against Barnsley and Charlton, don't be surprised if we beat one of those teams above us. Fulham currently losing 3-0 at Leeds - that's 2 defeats for Fulham - 5 goals against and none for.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by UxbridgeR » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:41 pm

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:27 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:21 pm
What are you doing about it, though. You continually present yourself as different from the "happy-clappers" in our "supine" fanbase, and yet what does it amount to ?
I'm pointing out why mediocrity is a self-fufilling prophecy. We had an outside chance of the play-offs before lockdown - now we're more likely to be dragged into a relegation battle. That's what a lack of ambition does to a club.
Well the same people were in charge before and after lockdown, so presumably were responsible for us having that outside chance in the first place.

Are you suggesting that they've thrown the last two games because they don't want to get promotion ?
I'm sure they're as pissed off with those results and performances as the rest of us.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:08 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:41 pm
Are you suggesting that they've thrown the last two games because they don't want to get promotion ?
I'm sure they're as pissed off with those results and performances as the rest of us.
Hoos said in the media that we weren't ready to restart, even though it had been clear it was imminent. Hardly a professional way of behaving, was it? He seems more worried about the sale of classic kits than the playing side.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:11 pm

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:08 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:41 pm
Are you suggesting that they've thrown the last two games because they don't want to get promotion ?
I'm sure they're as pissed off with those results and performances as the rest of us.
Hoos said in the media that we weren't ready to restart, even though it had been clear it was imminent. Hardly a professional way of behaving, was it? He seems more worried about the sale of classic kits than the playing side.
I think he was more concerned that players were testing positive at some clubs so not available, and despite the easing of restrictions, the virus has not gone away. Actually, I think that's an extremely professional attitude.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:13 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:31 pm
Colin said he did not want the job when he was caretaker manager (when Ferdinand was there) possibly as a result of his experiences the first time.
“With a bit of persuasion, I would have stayed there. But after we won at Reading, [director of football] Les Ferdinand came into the dressing room and told me that they were appointing Jimmy the next day. It was a bolt out of the blue and I was a bit disappointed but I enjoyed that time so much and I took another job at Rotherham.”

Anyway, at least we replaced him with a Championship specialist. shifty

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 77581.html

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by UxbridgeR » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:27 pm

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:13 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:31 pm
Colin said he did not want the job when he was caretaker manager (when Ferdinand was there) possibly as a result of his experiences the first time.
“With a bit of persuasion, I would have stayed there. But after we won at Reading, [director of football] Les Ferdinand came into the dressing room and told me that they were appointing Jimmy the next day. It was a bolt out of the blue and I was a bit disappointed but I enjoyed that time so much and I took another job at Rotherham.”

Anyway, at least we replaced him with a Championship specialist. shifty

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 77581.html
Ah yes, Neil "this is definitely my last job in football" Warnock. Famous for his honesty and no bullshit approach.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Montag » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:28 pm

It was obvious to anyone who saw NW during that 4 match spell that he would've taken the job. The improvement in the side was almost instant and he looked driven and up for it.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Damien » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm

Warnock is a winner. Last QPR side I would pay good money to watch was under him. Warburton suits the mentality of the club these days. Oh and congrats to Wealdstone on their promotion to the NL. Some good grounds for the supporters to visit - even if I suspect it will probably end like our last today into the big time.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:52 pm

Damien wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm
Warnock is a winner. Last QPR side I would pay good money to watch was under him.
Exactly. The last time we looked like we were going anywhere was nearly five years ago when we had him in charge.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34929370

And that's why I will continue to criticise the likes of Ferdinand - the one key decision he had to make, he failed. Replaced a manager whose record in this division is second-to-none with Jimmy Floyd-Hasselbaink. And no doubt next Sunday, we'll all be reminded once again of the sheer inanity of that decision. aniclap

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:09 am

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:52 pm
Damien wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm
Warnock is a winner. Last QPR side I would pay good money to watch was under him.
Exactly. The last time we looked like we were going anywhere was nearly five years ago when we had him in charge.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34929370

And that's why I will continue to criticise the likes of Ferdinand - the one key decision he had to make, he failed. Replaced a manager whose record in this division is second-to-none with Jimmy Floyd-Hasselbaink. And no doubt next Sunday, we'll all be reminded once again of the sheer inanity of that decision. aniclap
The fact that when Ferdinand arrived we were paying up contracts to get players out the door, we had 15 youth teams players in and around the first team squad, only five actually played (apart from Furlong you can count their QPR first team appearances on the fingers of both hands), and only Furlong was sold for decent money. Look at the squad now. When Ferdinand arrived, no one wanted to buy a QPR player, look at how that has changed. Excuse me, but (cough) isn't that moving in the direction that Brentford (who you love to cite as an example of how to do it) have gone?

You can sit behind your keyboard and criticise, but actually everything you are being critical of is actually being addressed and the proof is there to see. You want all of this to happen today, but these things take time. For example - Liverpool with vastly more resources and money than we have, have taken 30 years to win the title. When Ferdinand arrived we had players on silly money - not anymore. The club is still in trouble financially, not helped by the £1,000,000 a year FFP penalty) but things are so much better than they were. I would point out the FFP penalty was for digressions before Loos and Ferdinand arrived, but they are dealing with the consequences.

In your case - there are none so blind, as those who will not see.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Montag » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:12 am

Where is Hasselbaink now?
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Esox Lucius » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:24 am

Montag wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:12 am
Where is Hasselbaink now?
With his family.
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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:30 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:09 am
The fact that when Ferdinand arrived we were paying up contracts to get players out the door, we had 15 youth teams players in and around the first team squad, only five actually played (apart from Furlong you can count their QPR first team appearances on the fingers of both hands), and only Furlong was sold for decent money. Look at the squad now. When Ferdinand arrived, no one wanted to buy a QPR player, look at how that has changed. Excuse me, but (cough) isn't that moving in the direction that Brentford (who you love to cite as an example of how to do it) have gone?

You can sit behind your keyboard and criticise, but actually everything you are being critical of is actually being addressed and the proof is there to see. You want all of this to happen today, but these things take time. For example - Liverpool with vastly more resources and money than we have, have taken 30 years to win the title. When Ferdinand arrived we had players on silly money - not anymore. The club is still in trouble financially, not helped by the £1,000,000 a year FFP penalty) but things are so much better than they were. I would point out the FFP penalty was for digressions before Loos and Ferdinand arrived, but they are dealing with the consequences.

In your case - there are none so blind, as those who will not see.
The best way of getting out of the mess we're in is getting promoted and moving into a new stadium, two things which Ferdinand/Hoos have resolutely failed to do in the last five years. Go up, don't spend much and bank the money if we come down again - it's not rocket science. Ergo, retaining Warnock as manager rather than replacing him with Hasselbaink would be the most logical thing to do to achieve the first of these goals, which would help to facilitate the second. Ferdinand's decision was so resolutely stupid as to be unfathomable - of course there remains a suspicion that the choice was about more than managerial ability, which at least would have some kind of logic.

Alternatively, showing no ambition and underselling any talent we do develop (as is currently the case) is killing the club. The difference between us and Brentford is that Matthew Benham (unfortunately) knows what he's doing.

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:30 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:09 am
The fact that when Ferdinand arrived we were paying up contracts to get players out the door, we had 15 youth teams players in and around the first team squad, only five actually played (apart from Furlong you can count their QPR first team appearances on the fingers of both hands), and only Furlong was sold for decent money. Look at the squad now. When Ferdinand arrived, no one wanted to buy a QPR player, look at how that has changed. Excuse me, but (cough) isn't that moving in the direction that Brentford (who you love to cite as an example of how to do it) have gone?

You can sit behind your keyboard and criticise, but actually everything you are being critical of is actually being addressed and the proof is there to see. You want all of this to happen today, but these things take time. For example - Liverpool with vastly more resources and money than we have, have taken 30 years to win the title. When Ferdinand arrived we had players on silly money - not anymore. The club is still in trouble financially, not helped by the £1,000,000 a year FFP penalty) but things are so much better than they were. I would point out the FFP penalty was for digressions before Loos and Ferdinand arrived, but they are dealing with the consequences.

In your case - there are none so blind, as those who will not see.
The best way of getting out of the mess we're in is getting promoted and moving into a new stadium, two things which Ferdinand/Hoos have resolutely failed to do in the last five years. Go up, don't spend much and bank the money if we come down again - it's not rocket science. Ergo, retaining Warnock as manager rather than replacing him with Hasselbaink would be the most logical thing to do to achieve the first of these goals, which would help to facilitate the second. Ferdinand's decision was so resolutely stupid as to be unfathomable - of course there remains a suspicion that the choice was about more than managerial ability, which at least would have some kind of logic.

Alternatively, showing no ambition and underselling any talent we do develop (as is currently the case) is killing the club. The difference between us and Brentford is that Matthew Benham (unfortunately) knows what he's doing.

The fact that Warnock was past retirement age in 2015 (he turned 67 while he was with us) whereas Hasselbaink was in his early 40's almost certainly had something to do with it. Hasselbaink had been successful at Burton, so a reasonable decision at the time. I seem to recall lots of calls for some long term planning at the time, rather than a short term appointment. Wasn't his wife (NW's) diagnosed with cancer about that time too? Of course football management isn't an exact science - Clough was a disaster at Leeds for example. With hindsight (which is a wonderful thing) the decision to sack Warnock in 2012 was where the error occured. That was again pre- Ferdinand and Hoos. But hey ho. I have no idea what motivates Neil Warnock to continue being a football manager in his 71st year. Most people would be wanting to relax and spend time with their grandchildren. He is the exception rather than the rule.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

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Re: Charlton match...

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:30 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am
The fact that Warnock was past retirement age in 2015 (he turned 67 while he was with us) whereas Hasselbaink was in his early 40's almost certainly had something to do with it. Hasselbaink had been successful at Burton, so a reasonable decision at the time. I seem to recall lots of calls for some long term planning at the time, rather than a short term appointment. Wasn't his wife (NW's) diagnosed with cancer about that time too? Of course football management isn't an exact science - Clough was a disaster at Leeds for example. With hindsight (which is a wonderful thing) the decision to sack Warnock in 2012 was where the error occured. That was again pre- Ferdinand and Hoos. But hey ho. I have no idea what motivates Neil Warnock to continue being a football manager in his 71st year. Most people would be wanting to relax and spend time with their grandchildren. He is the exception rather than the rule.
Ferdinand was made Director of Football by Fernandes as a sop to the supporters, and to be fair, it seems to have worked. As a former playing legend, he receives far less criticism than someone without that background. As an example, at last week's fans forum, he was asked about his failure to find a decent striker and replied by saying how tough it is to find strikers in the current market. Okay fine, it may be, but after FIVE YEARS? Wouldn't you expect a Director of Football to have found us at least a couple of decent strikers somewhere in the world during that period, particularly as we had parachute payments for the majority of the time? And that's a perfect example of why we are where we are, miles behind Brentford ffs, because Uncle Bungle craftily appointed a fan favourite rather than someone who could actually do the job properly.

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