Warren Farm no longer being developed

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by SM » Fri May 08, 2020 8:33 am

old pauline wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 7:26 am
I don't think all the money would have been spent on submitting a planning application and going through the courts if it was 'all spin'. I'm not sure but it could be that we are trying to force Ealing's hand by telling them that we are going elsewhere.
It’s a good theory old pauline. But if we are to believe that the statements made by QPR are correct, Ealing council are the last of our problems.

They’ve successfully defended us on multiple occasions, so what angle could we have with them?
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by SM » Fri May 08, 2020 8:43 am

dm wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 5:43 am
The questions arise; where will it be and who will pay for it?

There's some fan speculation that could be the Concorde club where QPR's Academy train or the Harlington training ground. The positive would be the club would own rather than lease it. Nonetheless, it's yet another failure that ultimately comes down to the owners.
I found LH’s comment on the official site very interesting:
“We are in advanced discussions regarding the freehold of another site which we decided to pursue when the opportunity to acquire the site came up.”
They can’t announce anything on the new site because we don’t actually have a new site - regardless of how advanced these discussions are, they are just that, discussions.

From a negotiation point of view, why you would publicly withdraw from one site, when you still haven’t signed, sealed and delivered the alternative one staggers me. It makes no sense at all. It can only push the asking price up - not to mention leaving you extremely open to criticism if you don’t deliver it.

They can hide behind the NDA on this new mystery site for another unknown period of time, but if they don’t come good on it (like they failed to do with WF, OOC and LCS so far) then very serious questions need to be asked.

The club haven’t made a song and dance about it, but over the past few months they have lost very significant people behind the scenes that were very, very heavily involved in the planning behind all of these operational matters. It’s starting to make complete sense why none of them have been replaced now.
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by Greyhound » Fri May 08, 2020 10:30 am

From a negotiation point of view, why you would publicly withdraw from one site, when you still haven’t signed, sealed and delivered the alternative one staggers me.
Because of the legal challenge against WF being successful. I'm sure they would have preferred to keep it quiet, but it will hardly come as a secret to the freeholders of the new site that QPR want to buy it. Doesn't really weaken their position at all.

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by Satch » Fri May 08, 2020 1:05 pm

SM wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 8:43 am
dm wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 5:43 am
The questions arise; where will it be and who will pay for it?

There's some fan speculation that could be the Concorde club where QPR's Academy train or the Harlington training ground. The positive would be the club would own rather than lease it. Nonetheless, it's yet another failure that ultimately comes down to the owners.
I found LH’s comment on the official site very interesting:
“We are in advanced discussions regarding the freehold of another site which we decided to pursue when the opportunity to acquire the site came up.”
They can’t announce anything on the new site because we don’t actually have a new site - regardless of how advanced these discussions are, they are just that, discussions.

From a negotiation point of view, why you would publicly withdraw from one site, when you still haven’t signed, sealed and delivered the alternative one staggers me. It makes no sense at all. It can only push the asking price up - not to mention leaving you extremely open to criticism if you don’t deliver it.

They can hide behind the NDA on this new mystery site for another unknown period of time, but if they don’t come good on it (like they failed to do with WF, OOC and LCS so far) then very serious questions need to be asked.

The club haven’t made a song and dance about it, but over the past few months they have lost very significant people behind the scenes that were very, very heavily involved in the planning behind all of these operational matters. It’s starting to make complete sense why none of them have been replaced now.
Can you elaborate on this?

Still don't know what to make of it all. It certainly doesn't look great, hard to say whether they should have predicted the legal challenges.
Greyhound wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:30 am
From a negotiation point of view, why you would publicly withdraw from one site, when you still haven’t signed, sealed and delivered the alternative one staggers me.
Because of the legal challenge against WF being successful. I'm sure they would have preferred to keep it quiet, but it will hardly come as a secret to the freeholders of the new site that QPR want to buy it. Doesn't really weaken their position at all.
It feels like it might have been better from a negotiating positon to look as though we were fighting the judicial review rather than only having one option but hard to say really.
Last edited by Satch on Fri May 08, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by dm » Fri May 08, 2020 1:07 pm

Dave Mc confirms the site is the Concorde club where the academy trains: https://www.westlondonsport.com/qpr/foo ... -080520201

Imperial college, who own the site, has an interesting statement on this facility: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/sport/facili ... ns/heston/

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by SM » Fri May 08, 2020 1:27 pm

Greyhound wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:30 am
From a negotiation point of view, why you would publicly withdraw from one site, when you still haven’t signed, sealed and delivered the alternative one staggers me.
Because of the legal challenge against WF being successful. I'm sure they would have preferred to keep it quiet, but it will hardly come as a secret to the freeholders of the new site that QPR want to buy it. Doesn't really weaken their position at all.
Who said that their legal challenge against WF was successful Greyhound? I’ve not seen that anywhere?

We actually won at every single hurdle that we had to overcome. The Supreme Court of appeal ruled in our favour. They had exhausted all possible avenues to stop this happening.

The final judicial appeal should have been a formality, unless they found that the Supreme Court were also wrong (?) and overturned their decision too. Surely that would have been incredibly unlikely.

I could be completely wrong, but IMO, if you come to the table with WF as a realistic option (which the council, and Supreme Court have backed us on), surely the club is in a stronger place to call the shots?

It’s now public knowledge that all of our eggs are in that basket now... I fail to see how that goes in our favour? Doesn’t seem right to me.
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by dm » Fri May 08, 2020 3:26 pm

QPR seem to have quite a lot to do with the Concorde club already.

It has a youth football club called Concorde Ranger and they are a QPR partner club: https://concordefc.com/ Not to be confused with Concord Rangers in Essex who play in the National League South.

It's also where the QPR academy train with the Dome the club put in some years ago: https://www.openplay.co.uk/view/65/qpr-academy-dome

The college calls it The Heston Venue and in the past appear to have hosted entertainment there: https://www.ents24.com/hounslow-events/ ... corde-club

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by deadendjob » Fri May 08, 2020 5:24 pm

dm wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 3:26 pm
QPR seem to have quite a lot to do with the Concorde club already.

It has a youth football club called Concorde Ranger and they are a QPR partner club: https://concordefc.com/ Not to be confused with Concord Rangers in Essex who play in the National League South.

It's also where the QPR academy train with the Dome the club put in some years ago: https://www.openplay.co.uk/view/65/qpr-academy-dome

The college calls it The Heston Venue and in the past appear to have hosted entertainment there: https://www.ents24.com/hounslow-events/ ... corde-club
Nice sleuthing DM
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by deadendjob » Fri May 08, 2020 5:31 pm

SM wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:27 pm
Greyhound wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:30 am
From a negotiation point of view, why you would publicly withdraw from one site, when you still haven’t signed, sealed and delivered the alternative one staggers me.
Because of the legal challenge against WF being successful. I'm sure they would have preferred to keep it quiet, but it will hardly come as a secret to the freeholders of the new site that QPR want to buy it. Doesn't really weaken their position at all.
We actually won at every single hurdle that we had to overcome. The Supreme Court of appeal ruled in our favour. They had exhausted all possible avenues to stop this happening.
In light of what DM's posted, I wonder if it's just commercially more beneficial for us to use Cranford instead of Warren Farm?
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by Greyhound » Sat May 09, 2020 8:04 am

SM - I should have clarified that I meant the successful continuation of their campaign, as I'm guessing the strategy of delay and confound is the one that the campaigners have been following.

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by Esox Lucius » Sat May 09, 2020 9:14 am

Greyhound wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:04 am
SM - I should have clarified that I meant the successful continuation of their campaign, as I'm guessing the strategy of delay and confound is the one that the campaigners have been following.
It has been an expensive tactic for them though, they had costs awarded against them at every step I believe.
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by ZENITH R » Sat May 09, 2020 9:20 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:14 am
Greyhound wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:04 am
SM - I should have clarified that I meant the successful continuation of their campaign, as I'm guessing the strategy of delay and confound is the one that the campaigners have been following.
It has been an expensive tactic for them though, they had costs awarded against them at every step I believe.
While it appears to be the end of the road for us, it might not be Warren Farm. Maybe Brentford will look to follow up on their new stadium with a new training ground. Much of the legal leg work has been done, so it's ripe for someone else to walk in and develop the site.
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by sparkypark » Sat May 09, 2020 10:35 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:20 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:14 am
Greyhound wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:04 am
SM - I should have clarified that I meant the successful continuation of their campaign, as I'm guessing the strategy of delay and confound is the one that the campaigners have been following.
It has been an expensive tactic for them though, they had costs awarded against them at every step I believe.
While it appears to be the end of the road for us, it might not be Warren Farm. Maybe Brentford will look to follow up on their new stadium with a new training ground. Much of the legal leg work has been done, so it's ripe for someone else to walk in and develop the site.
From the club statement it seems the council wants to develop community pitches at WF and that QPR will still have an involvement. That may well be a good thing as Ealing has more QPR supporters than any other borough. Community facilities with a QPR brand would fit the image of a club which cares about its community.
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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by jimjams » Sun May 10, 2020 8:21 am

I'm not surprised to hear it might be the Concorde site. If we were going to give up on Warren Farm, then I think it must be an existing training center or we'd have to go through all the associated planning and regulatory steps and the related risks.
Perhaps it's cheaper, but it's also probably quicker and might be better. We should have it ready for next season, which was looking unlikely with WF.

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Re: Warren Farm no longer being developed

Post by deadendjob » Sun May 10, 2020 5:25 pm

jimjams wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:21 am
I'm not surprised to hear it might be the Concorde site. If we were going to give up on Warren Farm, then I think it must be an existing training center or we'd have to go through all the associated planning and regulatory steps and the related risks.
Perhaps it's cheaper, but it's also probably quicker and might be better. We should have it ready for next season, which was looking unlikely with WF.
I mean, that's pure speculation really. It depends on the size of the plans they're looking to undertake. One would imagine there needs to be quite a bit of development even if we went to the Concorde or they would've swapped the first team with the academy earlier.
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