How long does Warburton have?

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by UxbridgeR » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:54 am

Systemsguy wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:23 pm
but..... Masterson is part of our defence now?

and of a first team of 11 players, 4 and 5 and possibly 6 if you count Manning and Lumley were scouted in that team...

how many more you want?

we cant afford ready made quality strikers, so we loan for now.....

Nakhi had a purple patch with us and Burnley recouped some money on him, but so did Jamie Mackie and Dave Agyeman (remember him?)
Having three loan strikers was a poor decision in my view. We should have at least one striker in our regular first team squad who actually belongs to us and is learning from his more established counterparts. Bringing Oteh back seems very much a token gesture, as he's hardly set the world on fire at Bradford.

I think it's fair to criticize the scouting set-up too. We rarely seem to bring in players from Europe, which is a huge market. I can only think of Leistner and Chair in the last few years. We've brought in a few good young players from the lower leagues or who have been released by other clubs, but we're often very slow to bring them through to the point where they're regular members of the first team. Manning was signed 5 years ago, and has played barely 80 games. BOS came in three years ago and has only established himself this season.

Brentford seem to have excellent succession planning in both the playing and managerial spheres. Of course it helps massively when you're able to sell one or more players every season for £10M+, but their recruitment is consistently very good. We're moving in the right direction, but I can understand that some people find it all frustratingly slow.
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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by dm » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:02 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:54 am
Systemsguy wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:23 pm
but..... Masterson is part of our defence now?

and of a first team of 11 players, 4 and 5 and possibly 6 if you count Manning and Lumley were scouted in that team...

how many more you want?

we cant afford ready made quality strikers, so we loan for now.....

Nakhi had a purple patch with us and Burnley recouped some money on him, but so did Jamie Mackie and Dave Agyeman (remember him?)
Having three loan strikers was a poor decision in my view. We should have at least one striker in our regular first team squad who actually belongs to us and is learning from his more established counterparts. Bringing Oteh back seems very much a token gesture, as he's hardly set the world on fire at Bradford.

I think it's fair to criticize the scouting set-up too. We rarely seem to bring in players from Europe, which is a huge market. I can only think of Leistner and Chair in the last few years. We've brought in a few good young players from the lower leagues or who have been released by other clubs, but we're often very slow to bring them through to the point where they're regular members of the first team. Manning was signed 5 years ago, and has played barely 80 games. BOS came in three years ago and has only established himself this season.

Brentford seem to have excellent succession planning in both the playing and managerial spheres. Of course it helps massively when you're able to sell one or more players every season for £10M+, but their recruitment is consistently very good. We're moving in the right direction, but I can understand that some people find it all frustratingly slow.
When it comes to recruitment I do wonder if other issues involved in us not being able to attract talent in the same way other clubs do. Our training facilities are inferior to many clubs and our stadium can't be great for the players. The reputation built over the last 10 years for being a madhouse won't help either.

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by nic » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:56 pm

True - players will look at a side that is often uneven and in the headlines and at the wrong end of the table and think we are a bad bet.

In terms of the players we have brought in, quite a few have worked out, though it is striking that the real stars of the season were players we already had.

To be fair to Warburton, he has no money and we seem to have not only a decent team but an ok squad.

I do worry though, that we might lose again 2-0 tonight and find ourselves under more and more pressure.

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:39 pm

nic wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:56 pm
True - players will look at a side that is often uneven and in the headlines and at the wrong end of the table and think we are a bad bet.

In terms of the players we have brought in, quite a few have worked out, though it is striking that the real stars of the season were players we already had.

To be fair to Warburton, he has no money and we seem to have not only a decent team but an ok squad.

I do worry though, that we might lose again 2-0 tonight and find ourselves under more and more pressure.
Not as much pressure as those below us. It is all relative.
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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by ZENITH R » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 pm

In relation to the OP's original question ... I don't think we should be even thinking about replacing MW. There are lots of positives, though a few self inflicted negatives too. Not putting out our strongest 11 in an FA Cup game which we lost (I know it worked against Swansea), but Warnock, Holloway, Redknapp, Hughes, JFH, Ramsay, etc all made the same mistake. They all said the same thing afterwards too ... "That team should have been good enough to win that match." You have to learn from history!

The bottom line is football is a results driven industry, and it doesn't matter if you love the club, are passionate, care or even played for the club. If results are not good enough - you will be gone. Ask Ian Holloway.

I'm still scratching my head why after destroying Cardiff on New Years Day, we haven't used the same tactics again. Two solid full backs dealing available to deal with attacks in front of them, who were not expected to cross the half way line. We have been playing Kane at right back, and asking him to get forward and put crosses into the box. This has left gaps at the back, where Bristol City for starters scored as Kane was not there to mark the scorer. It seems a waste as we have BOS to raid down the right, and I feel Kane and BOS sometimes get in each others way ... less is more. We have at least 3 players who have pace, which can hurt the opposition, but we need to be a little more direct and get them running into the box.
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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:38 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 pm
In relation to the OP's original question ... I don't think we should be even thinking about replacing MW. There are lots of positives, though a few self inflicted negatives too. Not putting out our strongest 11 in an FA Cup game which we lost (I know it worked against Swansea), but Warnock, Holloway, Redknapp, Hughes, JFH, Ramsay, etc all made the same mistake. They all said the same thing afterwards too ... "That team should have been good enough to win that match." You have to learn from history!

The bottom line is football is a results driven industry, and it doesn't matter if you love the club, are passionate, care or even played for the club. If results are not good enough - you will be gone. Ask Ian Holloway.

I'm still scratching my head why after destroying Cardiff on New Years Day, we haven't used the same tactics again. Two solid full backs dealing available to deal with attacks in front of them, who were not expected to cross the half way line. We have been playing Kane at right back, and asking him to get forward and put crosses into the box. This has left gaps at the back, where Bristol City for starters scored as Kane was not there to mark the scorer. It seems a waste as we have BOS to raid down the right, and I feel Kane and BOS sometimes get in each others way ... less is more. We have at least 3 players who have pace, which can hurt the opposition, but we need to be a little more direct and get them running into the box.
From a spectator POV I am in full accordance with you but something someone posted last week got me thinking about why it is that we are most unlikely to see any change of tactics at the club this season, next season or any season until we get the multipurpose stadium up and running at a profit. With the stagnant revenue stream and the P&S side of FFP preventing the owners from putting in all the money we need to be competitive it would appear that we will be ever more reliant on selling players every season and the more we get for them, the less of them we will have to sell. Selling to League One, Two etc. isn't going to cut it so QPR have to aim at EPL or Championship teams looking to build a promotion side with EPL ready players. This currently would include the likes of Eze, BOS, Chair etc. but the club also needs to be producing players in all positions which may be why there is an almost devoted insistence on the defenders having to learn to play the ball out and carry the ball before picking out a killer pass. The players we currently have are struggling with this at times but perhaps next May's plan is to get a couple of unpolished gems in and move on what we already have which isn't going to cut the mustard, or are getting too long in the tooth to either play, or adapt, to the "new" style.
It is a double edged sword this season; we can all see players who can pass the ball skillfully and beat players with both technique and pace but we also have the worrisome sight of players who are too slow at the back to deal with the type of attacking players we have that play for the opposition. Keeping it narrow at the back has only meant that opposition wide players have a free run at our flanks and then it is a lottery if we manage to keep the ball out of the back of the net or not. This has sapped the confidence, visibly at times, but whilst we were one of the most free scoring sides it was manageable. I am not certain but, Joe Felix looked like the sort of player we were looking to develop for the type of defender we should be using in this system but, according to a couple of the U23's, he didn't like being at QPR and couldn't wait to leave. He is the only one of our academy players that I have heard about being disgruntled so I am hoping it was him rather than something not right with Paul Hall in this case. It will be interesting to see who gets picked up by the academy during the Summer as this will give a good indication as to how the club is going to progress with the new reality of running within P&S.
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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by Satch » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:00 pm

I wonder if nonsense like this thread title influenced tonight's approach? Far more conservative than we've come to expect.
White Duck wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:16 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:43 pm
wander off! the last thing that will make us any better is getting rid of another manager just because you've started your period. The majority of fans had us down for a relegation battle from the start of the season. Instead of which we have watched the best football in years with a team of kids coming through the academy and one of the highest scoring teams in the FL. The defence is too slow to be competitive in the Championship and it IS going to cost us games but get rid of the manager? Give your head a wobble.
Ah the old ‘most fans expected us to be battling relegation’ bollox. Absolute rubbish. We should be safely mid table with the squad we have so if MW fails to deliver this then he should be questioned.
I don't see how you could have expected this side to be comfortable mid-table. We finished 19th last season and MW inherited a much weaker side with a huge amount of turnover on top. He's done a good job and is probably suffering for overachieving early on, i'm of course frustrated by some of the basic defensive stuff and if that isn't improved on then questions should be asked about his willingness to get in the right personnel to assist as we obviously need to improve that to progress. Overall though, he's far exceeded expectations and given us reason to get off the manager merry go round, hopefully.
Last edited by Satch on Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by Giorgio » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:04 pm

Satch wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:00 pm
I don't see how you could have expected this side to be comfortable mid-table. We finished 19th last season
...well..on the evening of 22nd of October....we played Reading home....and when we were 1-0 and 2-1 up we were
joint top leader with WBA....so I did not expect to stay there for long...but not even to be in a relegation battle....

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by Satch » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:06 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:04 pm
Satch wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:00 pm
I don't see how you could have expected this side to be comfortable mid-table. We finished 19th last season
...well..on the evening of 22nd of October....we played Reading home....and when we were 1-0 and 2-1 up we were
joint top leader with WBA....so I did not expect to stay there for long...but not even to be in a relegation battle....
I think we're discussing reasonable expectations at the start of the season.

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by John in Hemel » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:34 pm

After a performance like today I hope the breadman can stay at QPR for years and years and years

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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by deadendjob » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:19 pm

Satch wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:00 pm
White Duck wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:16 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:43 pm
wander off! the last thing that will make us any better is getting rid of another manager just because you've started your period. The majority of fans had us down for a relegation battle from the start of the season. Instead of which we have watched the best football in years with a team of kids coming through the academy and one of the highest scoring teams in the FL. The defence is too slow to be competitive in the Championship and it IS going to cost us games but get rid of the manager? Give your head a wobble.
Ah the old ‘most fans expected us to be battling relegation’ bollox. Absolute rubbish. We should be safely mid table with the squad we have so if MW fails to deliver this then he should be questioned.
I don't see how you could have expected this side to be comfortable mid-table. We finished 19th last season and MW inherited a much weaker side with a huge amount of turnover on top. He's done a good job and is probably suffering for overachieving early on, i'm of course frustrated by some of the basic defensive stuff and if that isn't improved on then questions should be asked about his willingness to get in the right personnel to assist as we obviously need to improve that to progress. Overall though, he's far exceeded expectations and given us reason to get off the manager merry go round, hopefully.
I do wonder if he's just been told there aren't any funds to address that and he just has to deal with the hand hes been dealt.
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Re: How long does Warburton have?

Post by Satch » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:08 pm

Maybe, i'd imagine it would be a fairly modest outlay in relation to the cost of playing staff and the potential benefit on field and on the players as assets. Chris Ramsay did a decent job for Holloway, maybe he could get involved. We really do need to cut out some basic errors that really are not the fault of our entertaining brand of football.

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