Ambition

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rtastic
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Ambition

Post by rtastic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:51 pm

Not too sure of the background to it but losing Wells and Tony I think is a big blow, He played the ball out well from the back and Wells obviously had a knack of scoring.
Where is our ambition it seems that we accept that all these players even the younger ones are going to be off soon, After our mad spending spree in the premiership I fully understand how we needed to pull the rains in.
I think Mark Warburton is a good manager, all he needs is some backing I cannot understand with the current owners I know they overspent in the past but feel that we need some investment.
They want us as fans to invest our time in watching our beloved club, I think they need to have that same passion.

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Re: Ambition

Post by Greyhound » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:59 pm

It's a tough one, because they cannot put money into the club without risking further FFP disasters. We just can't go there.

What we need to invest in is our youth and scouting set-up, and personally I am more than happy half way through the season with the likes of Chair, Eze, Bright, Manning and Masterson, and I'm even happy enough with some of the other acquisitions who may need more time. I would rather be producing these players and (yes, sadly) selling them, than buying them for a fortune and then watching them go missing when they realise they are expected to graft.

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rtastic
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Re: Ambition

Post by rtastic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:26 pm

Good points, it just seems that to invest in youth yes I agree with and I'm really pleased with the players that we have at our club youth wise but I feel a combination of desperately trying to keep these players because I think they are a bit special and also adding to this with some proven premiership players Wells et cetera then you have the nucleus for ambition and success.
With the board that we have surely we have that capability, to be honest I do not understand the full implications of financial Fairplay but by God it's going on a long time now

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Re: Ambition

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:43 am

rtastic wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:26 pm
Good points, it just seems that to invest in youth yes I agree with and I'm really pleased with the players that we have at our club youth wise but I feel a combination of desperately trying to keep these players because I think they are a bit special and also adding to this with some proven premiership players Wells et cetera then you have the nucleus for ambition and success.
With the board that we have surely we have that capability, to be honest I do not understand the full implications of financial Fairplay but by God it's going on a long time now
Obviously not, FFP and P&S are an ongoing regulatory obligation.
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Re: Ambition

Post by Satch » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:01 pm

rtastic wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:51 pm
Not too sure of the background to it but losing Wells and Tony I think is a big blow, He played the ball out well from the back and Wells obviously had a knack of scoring.
Where is our ambition it seems that we accept that all these players even the younger ones are going to be off soon, After our mad spending spree in the premiership I fully understand how we needed to pull the rains in.
I think Mark Warburton is a good manager, all he needs is some backing I cannot understand with the current owners I know they overspent in the past but feel that we need some investment.
They want us as fans to invest our time in watching our beloved club, I think they need to have that same passion.
I'll be honest, i don't think Leistner does play the ball out especially well and that's why MW has always been keen to replace him. He's also on a lot of money. Likewise, Wells wasn't ours and it wouldn't have made any sense to spend 5m on a player who's 30. We just can't take the risk of that sort of outlay with no likely return. I don't have a gauge on what the expectations, motives or goals are for our owners but all the while FFP / PS is there we have to run the club this way, which has probably saved us from ourselves.

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Re: Ambition

Post by ZENITH R » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:27 am

As I see it ...

QPR have always been a selling club, this is because, we are a small club (compared to others even in London). As a result we don't generate a huge income, so have always had to sell our best/ most promising players to keep our heads above water. In recent times we haven't produced too many sale-able assets, and from that point of view we are actually in a much better place than we have been for years.

As for Tony - the BFG, I like Tony, but lets not lose sight of the fact our defence has been shocking, this season and over the last few. Tony has been part of that, and like others has made some costly errors. So, lets not beat ourselves up and try to make Tony into some Tony Adams or Patrick Viera type player. He was average, perhaps a bit better than average in a very poor defence.

With Wells, he wasn't our player, so we had no say over what happened. He is a good championship player but will turn 30 in the summer. £5 million pounds! To put that into perspective ... that is a million more than we paid and sold Charlie Austin for. If we weren't cash strapped, I would still be unhappy if we had offered Burnley £5 million for his services. I don't believe at 29 he is £5 million player. I think Bristol City will discover that over the coming weeks and months.

The bigger picture is we are moving in the right direction. It's slow progress and hugely frustrating, especially when you consider how much money we wasted over the last 10 years. I think the owners really do need to get a start on one of the two much needed projects - either the stadium (which I think will take longer) or more likely the training ground. Making a practical start on these developments (only one a possibility at the moment) would give everyone a lift and show intent.
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Re: Ambition

Post by jimjams » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:07 am

Agree with Zenith.
FFP means that clubs have to spend (roughly) within their means on running costs, which are mostly wages and transfer fees. In 2017/18 our income was 31 million, but costs were 69 million, so we made a 38 million loss. Some of those costs came from a fine, but 31 million came from wages (ie all our income). Last season it was probably similar.
This season income will likely be less than half that, because the previous two years we got a 17 million parachute payment. So even if wages went down enough last year, they would have to come down significantly this year, just to stay within the rules. Basically, compared to 17/18, we have to find 35 million from somewhere, and most of that will be in cutting the wage bill. We can't afford Wells, whatever the board's ambitions. Wages of, say, 25k a week would set us back over 3.5 million.
If we want to buy some players, we have to sell enough to make a profit overall, not just on the player, so the training facilities and stadium, which are exempt from FFP calculations, are better indications of ambition, I think.

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Re: Ambition

Post by Lee Gib » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:30 pm

I imagine they've had a board meeting during the window where they agreed that we're almost certainly not going up or down and decided to cut some wages where they could. I know people wont like to hear this but I think this makes perfect sense. Whether we like these decisions or not the club is being run with more financial sense now than at any time during the last 20 years.

There is a lot of damage that has been done during the Fernandes years in particular that needs some tough fixing. I think we have the perfect manager to get us through this.
Last edited by Lee Gib on Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ambition

Post by QPR-NI » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:03 pm

FFP has destroyed any ambition QPR could ever have. The owners should have seen it through to the highest court in the land, because if ever there is a case to answer for restraint of trade and facilitating monopolies, ffp is it.

However they have accepted the “ guilt” and we are where we are, whilst Derby laugh at them and us.

Until this unjust rule is consigned to the bin where it belongs, we and those like us, will just have to accept that bottom of the Championship or League 1, is where we will be.

The message is quite clear, know your place and don’t dare show any ambition to improve, even when spending your own money, how you see fit.

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Re: Ambition

Post by QPR_John » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:02 pm

QPR-NI wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:03 pm
FFP has destroyed any ambition QPR could ever have. The owners should have seen it through to the highest court in the land, because if ever there is a case to answer for restraint of trade and facilitating monopolies, ffp is it.

However they have accepted the “ guilt” and we are where we are, whilst Derby laugh at them and us.

Until this unjust rule is consigned to the bin where it belongs, we and those like us, will just have to accept that bottom of the Championship or League 1, is where we will be.

The message is quite clear, know your place and don’t dare show any ambition to improve, even when spending your own money, how you see fit.
Never a truer word

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Re: Ambition

Post by White Duck » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:03 pm

The EFL have set a precedent with the 'punishment' they gave to Birmingham last season and a number of clubs are openly ignoring FFP in the pursuit of promotion. The clubs under threat from EFL sanctions are basically ignoring it and carrying on spending money as they don't fear the consequences.
Too late now but we should indeed have fought the EFL all the way.
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Re: Ambition

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:37 am

Clubs have been "openly ignoring FFP in the pursuit of promotion" for years, including ourselves back in 2013-14. It's hardly a new phenomenon.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: Ambition

Post by Systemsguy » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:53 pm

We had plenty of ambition when TF was in charge...

Mark Hughes was signing off details on our training ground to be ready in 2015.... A spade of earth is still yet to be turned at Warren Farm...

and let's not talk about the new stadium! Utter farce

We signed a Brazilian goalkeeper on a reputed £100K a week and threw contracts at players who couldn't wait to sign them and then hang around the club like a bad smell turning up for training but never actually kicking a ball in anger until the gravy train stopped as their contract ran out....

The 2020 transfer window activity actually shows the QPR circus is back in responsible hands...

As long as we survive relegation surely this season is a success as many thought the worse would happen...

For the first time since Raheem Sterling we have some real yoof prospects that may or may not be sold during the summer for a decent profit to finance the rebuild of the team under Mark Warburton....

Loved to have kept Wells and Leistner (Barbet nearly being fit may have swung the loan) but the club has to cut its cloth and next season is the real litmus test for MW for me....
2019/2020.... Keep Calm, no matter the season, we'll follow our team.....

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Re: Ambition

Post by QPR_John » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:13 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:37 am
Clubs have been "openly ignoring FFP in the pursuit of promotion" for years, including ourselves back in 2013-14. It's hardly a new phenomenon.
Interestingly if true that other clubs were ignoring FFP at the same time as us I wonder why the FL missed it and only managed to persue us.

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Re: Ambition

Post by jimjams » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:07 am

QPR-NI wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:03 pm
FFP has destroyed any ambition QPR could ever have. The owners should have seen it through to the highest court in the land, because if ever there is a case to answer for restraint of trade and facilitating monopolies, ffp is it.

However they have accepted the “ guilt” and we are where we are, whilst Derby laugh at them and us.
We can still have ambition, we just need to earn our success rather than buy it. Buying it seems usually to fail anyway. It's a bit odd, I think, to wish you were more like Derby or Birmingham and less like Brentford.

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