QPR - Bristol C match thread

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by QPR_John » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm

Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:47 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:43 pm
Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:34 pm


Rightly or wrongly the rules and sanctions have changed. We broke one set of rules knowing the consequences, the clubs since have done the same with a different set of sanctions.
Rightly the rules and sanctions have changed but wrongly we were punished under the old set which even the FL agreed were perverse. Simple justice.
Yes, they changed the rules but we knew what they were when we broke them. The largest wage bill the championship had ever seen. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point complaining now when it's pretty clear that we deliberately broke the rules to get promotion.
Just making the point that the punishment if more lenient is as specified at the time it is imposed not when the rules were broken. Again simple justice

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:39 pm

Damien wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:28 pm
Agree about the standard of some of the squad - but that's not their or MW's fault. The fault lies with the charlatans running our club into the ground. As long as they are in charge nothing will change. I'd rather be in the National league with owners who have a realistic plan for the future.
Spot on, Damien. Still too many happy clappers who think we're heading for a brave new world despite the evidence to the contrary. They have literally given up on this season in January which shows their contempt for the supporters. But wait, say the happy clappers, what about FFP? Last time I looked infrastructure was exempt from FFP so where's that brand new training ground? Not even a shovel in the ground yet. And if we're so hard up, why are we throwing away cup matches?

You only need to look at Brentford to see the abject way we're run. Moving into a new stadium, possibly in the Premier League - which is ultimately the only way we're ever going to stabilise the club financially. If the current owners have no ambition to do that then they need to go. And that goes for the puppet ersatz supporter chairman, the Director of Failure and Hoos too - that brains trust made the decision to throw away a home tie against Man City which says it all about their competence. Quite how we have some many chiefs when the performances on the field are so mediocre says it all. All on fat salaries too.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Mr Beef » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:18 pm

QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm
Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:47 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:43 pm


Rightly the rules and sanctions have changed but wrongly we were punished under the old set which even the FL agreed were perverse. Simple justice.
Yes, they changed the rules but we knew what they were when we broke them. The largest wage bill the championship had ever seen. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point complaining now when it's pretty clear that we deliberately broke the rules to get promotion.
Just making the point that the punishment if more lenient is as specified at the time it is imposed not when the rules were broken. Again simple justice

The club broke the rules when the sanction was clear at the time. Nobody knew that the rules would change, the owners certainly didn't but broke the rules anyway. Its surely justice for all the other clubs in the division who hadn't broken those rules that we were punished under the rules in place when we broke them?

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Damien » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:23 pm

Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:18 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm
Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:47 pm


Yes, they changed the rules but we knew what they were when we broke them. The largest wage bill the championship had ever seen. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point complaining now when it's pretty clear that we deliberately broke the rules to get promotion.
Just making the point that the punishment if more lenient is as specified at the time it is imposed not when the rules were broken. Again simple justice

The club broke the rules when the sanction was clear at the time. Nobody knew that the rules would change, the owners certainly didn't but broke the rules anyway. Its surely justice for all the other clubs in the division who hadn't broken those rules that we were punished under the rules in place when we broke them?
Are we really the only club that broke those old rules? Hard to believe with the money in the Championship then and now. Still think we got a harsher punishment than we deserved. At the end of the day, why should the club and supporters have to suffer for a rich man's folly.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Mr Beef » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:42 pm

Damien wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:23 pm
Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:18 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm


Just making the point that the punishment if more lenient is as specified at the time it is imposed not when the rules were broken. Again simple justice

The club broke the rules when the sanction was clear at the time. Nobody knew that the rules would change, the owners certainly didn't but broke the rules anyway. Its surely justice for all the other clubs in the division who hadn't broken those rules that we were punished under the rules in place when we broke them?
Are we really the only club that broke those old rules? Hard to believe with the money in the Championship then and now. Still think we got a harsher punishment than we deserved. At the end of the day, why should the club and supporters have to suffer for a rich man's folly.
Agree that the club and supporters are paying for the mistakes that Fernandes made, but an £80m wage bill with loan player after loan player being brought in long after we'd broken the rules was only ever going to go one way. Others got may have got away with it it because they got promoted and stayed up, we had Fernandes buying Redknapp a car for finishing 4th with a huge wage bill instead.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by QPR_John » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:07 pm

Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:18 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm
Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:47 pm


Yes, they changed the rules but we knew what they were when we broke them. The largest wage bill the championship had ever seen. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point complaining now when it's pretty clear that we deliberately broke the rules to get promotion.
Just making the point that the punishment if more lenient is as specified at the time it is imposed not when the rules were broken. Again simple justice

The club broke the rules when the sanction was clear at the time. Nobody knew that the rules would change, the owners certainly didn't but broke the rules anyway. Its surely justice for all the other clubs in the division who hadn't broken those rules that we were punished under the rules in place when we broke them?
It is immaterial that nobody knew the sanctions would change the fact remains they were changed. If uncovered evidence showed I committed a murder in the early sixties before capital punishment was abolished would I be executed now. I'm sure there is a fancy legal phrase for this.
Last edited by QPR_John on Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by jimjams » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:38 am

QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:07 pm
It is immaterial that nobody new the sanctions would change the fact remains they were changed. If uncovered evidence showed I committed a murder in the early sixties before capital punishment was abolished would I be executed now. I'm sure there is a fancy legal phrase for this.
Ex-post facto. But it's not a good example. The death penalty wouldn't be applied because it has been abolished, (and would be illegal anyway under the Human Rights Act). Some laws are retroactively applied, but I think it's quite usual for people to be tried according to the law of the time. Example is if you run a tax avoidance scheme that is legal until a new law makes it illegal. AIUI you couldn't be charged for the scheme before the new law takes effect.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by jimjams » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:21 am

old pauline wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:13 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:50 pm
A month ago we beat Cardiff at home 6-1. The team was set up with two solid full backs in Cameron and Wallace. It was a case of having a solid defence (base) to build on. Despite that tactic proving extremely successful against a team who were playing in the Premier League last season we haven't used it since.

Today, we conceded when a cross field ball found the goal scorer totally unmarked and the right back (Kane) missing in action. It was a good finish, but had there been a right bag marking him, he might not have scored.

I don't quite understand why we have changed our tactics, when they worked so well.
I said we'd miss Furlong. Big Matt Smith too, He'd be useful now. And Leistner,
Don't pretend Furlong would have been in a defensive position for that goal, or that Leistner would have been quick enough to get across. (On Matt Smith I agree. He's a lump, but a useful lump).
Reality is Hall made a loose pass to Eze, who was not switched on. Their player got the ball and hit it early to their striker, who was in the space Hall would have been in if we were not in posession. Obviously at the point Hall passed it, Kane was further up the pitch looking for space. Even a very defensive full back would normally be in front of Hall when he had the ball. What do you want him to do? Teleport?
Truth is, we had too many players who were not fully switched on. Hall, Eze, Amos and Chair all gave the ball away cheaply with sloppy passes, poor first touches and ball watching when Bristol were pressing. That, really was what made the difference.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Mr Beef » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:26 pm

jimjams wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:38 am
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:07 pm
It is immaterial that nobody new the sanctions would change the fact remains they were changed. If uncovered evidence showed I committed a murder in the early sixties before capital punishment was abolished would I be executed now. I'm sure there is a fancy legal phrase for this.
Ex-post facto. But it's not a good example. The death penalty wouldn't be applied because it has been abolished, (and would be illegal anyway under the Human Rights Act). Some laws are retroactively applied, but I think it's quite usual for people to be tried according to the law of the time. Example is if you run a tax avoidance scheme that is legal until a new law makes it illegal. AIUI you couldn't be charged for the scheme before the new law takes effect.
Yep, the owners knew what they were doing and the club were punished under the rules in place at the time.

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by QPR_John » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Mr Beef wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:26 pm
jimjams wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:38 am
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:07 pm
It is immaterial that nobody new the sanctions would change the fact remains they were changed. If uncovered evidence showed I committed a murder in the early sixties before capital punishment was abolished would I be executed now. I'm sure there is a fancy legal phrase for this.
Ex-post facto. But it's not a good example. The death penalty wouldn't be applied because it has been abolished, (and would be illegal anyway under the Human Rights Act). Some laws are retroactively applied, but I think it's quite usual for people to be tried according to the law of the time. Example is if you run a tax avoidance scheme that is legal until a new law makes it illegal. AIUI you couldn't be charged for the scheme before the new law takes effect.
Yep, the owners knew what they were doing and the club were punished under the rules in place at the time.
OK

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Andy_N19 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:27 pm

jimjams wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:21 am
Reality is Hall made a loose pass to Eze, who was not switched on.
There's another thing, Eze had another mediocre game. Any Premier league scouts would think again
seeing his lack of intensity yesterday, he is a gem of a player for us though.

Said Benrahma @Brentford is Premiership ready, Eze isn't at the moment, suffice to say
BOS and Chair are nowhere near either so a breakup of our very talented youth isn't imminent or
a reported £15mil Palace swoop for Eze.
Staff Benda Bilili

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by Damien » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:52 pm

Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:42 pm
Damien wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:23 pm
Mr Beef wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:18 pm



The club broke the rules when the sanction was clear at the time. Nobody knew that the rules would change, the owners certainly didn't but broke the rules anyway. Its surely justice for all the other clubs in the division who hadn't broken those rules that we were punished under the rules in place when we broke them?
Are we really the only club that broke those old rules? Hard to believe with the money in the Championship then and now. Still think we got a harsher punishment than we deserved. At the end of the day, why should the club and supporters have to suffer for a rich man's folly.
Agree that the club and supporters are paying for the mistakes that Fernandes made, but an £80m wage bill with loan player after loan player being brought in long after we'd broken the rules was only ever going to go one way. Others got may have got away with it it because they got promoted and stayed up, we had Fernandes buying Redknapp a car for finishing 4th with a huge wage bill instead.
Thanks for clearing that up. Still bloody frustrating for the club and supporters though. We have paid a heavy price for that day at Wembley alright. Must compile a list of the gobshites that have brought our club to its knees whilst fattening their own wallets : could be a ong list :roll:

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by UxbridgeR » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:43 pm

Damien wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:28 pm
Andy_N19 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:24 pm
The only thing to criticize is the quality or lack of it of our playing staff. Won't slate the manager and the 2nd half was better but we simply have too many League 1 standard footballers at Loftus Road.
Agree about the standard of some of the squad - but that's not their or MW's fault. The fault lies with the charlatans running our club into the ground. As long as they are in charge nothing will change. I'd rather be in the National league with owners who have a realistic plan for the future.
Wow. You want the club to drop out of the Football League just so you can feel better about things. What would be a realistic plan from where we sit currently ?

And how exactly are the owners running the club into the ground ? They've lost £200M+ as it is, and we continue to lose money every year.
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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by UxbridgeR » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:51 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:50 pm
A month ago we beat Cardiff at home 6-1. The team was set up with two solid full backs in Cameron and Wallace. It was a case of having a solid defence (base) to build on. Despite that tactic proving extremely successful against a team who were playing in the Premier League last season we haven't used it since.

Today, we conceded when a cross field ball found the goal scorer totally unmarked and the right back (Kane) missing in action. It was a good finish, but had there been a right bag marking him, he might not have scored.

I don't quite understand why we have changed our tactics, when they worked so well.
They worked for one game, where everything we tried came off for us. Who uses the same tactics in every game, irrespective of the opposition ? You'd get found out very quickly.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: QPR - Bristol C match thread

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:27 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:51 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:50 pm
A month ago we beat Cardiff at home 6-1. The team was set up with two solid full backs in Cameron and Wallace. It was a case of having a solid defence (base) to build on. Despite that tactic proving extremely successful against a team who were playing in the Premier League last season we haven't used it since.

Today, we conceded when a cross field ball found the goal scorer totally unmarked and the right back (Kane) missing in action. It was a good finish, but had there been a right bag marking him, he might not have scored.

I don't quite understand why we have changed our tactics, when they worked so well.
They worked for one game, where everything we tried came off for us. Who uses the same tactics in every game, irrespective of the opposition ? You'd get found out very quickly.
Isn't that what we are doing now? Pretty much the same starting 11 (obviously minus Wells & Leistner), usually the same formation, and petty similar tactics. The Cardiff game was a departure from the norm. If you try something different and it gives you spectacular results, surely common sense suggests you try it again.
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