Fearful

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ANDREW1302
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Fearful

Post by ANDREW1302 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:45 am

I am getting a bit nervous. We look good but we are now really on a bad run and without a defence i am starting to see a continuing slide. Goalkeepers are a problem. Lumley is a better stopper but his distribution is awful and has cost us in a number of games. Kelly is better at distribution but to my mind is simply not agile enough for his size. We also lack a Championship level centre back. Without a defence it just undermines confidence. We need to sign someone in January in my view or we might start looking over our shoulders.

A defence coach might also help........

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Re: Fearful

Post by Crabsandwich » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:25 am

Calm down and enjoy the ride. A lot of good football last night, we got found out in the second half as they pressed us harder and it took a stupid error to beat us. As poor as we can be defensively, we should have been out of sight by halftime and that wasn't the defence's fault.

We're way ahead of expectations but I don't get the sense that the management are relaxed or resting on their laurels. Teams like Fulham SHOULD be beating us, although of course you get a lot of odd results in the Chamopionship, but it's hard to argue that if we finish in this position we'll have massively over-achieved. This run will end, a lot of sides will lose to Fulham, Leeds and Brentford.

I'm sure we'll do something in January to shore us up at the back.

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Re: Fearful

Post by QPR_John » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:01 am

Crabsandwich wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:25 am
Calm down and enjoy the ride. A lot of good football last night, we got found out in the second half as they pressed us harder and it took a stupid error to beat us. As poor as we can be defensively, we should have been out of sight by halftime and that wasn't the defence's fault.

We're way ahead of expectations but I don't get the sense that the management are relaxed or resting on their laurels. Teams like Fulham SHOULD be beating us, although of course you get a lot of odd results in the Chamopionship, but it's hard to argue that if we finish in this position we'll have massively over-achieved. This run will end, a lot of sides will lose to Fulham, Leeds and Brentford.

I'm sure we'll do something in January to shore us up at the back.
"As poor as we can be defensively, we should have been out of sight by halftime and that wasn't the defence's fault."

But is it not a vicious circle our very poor defence puts too much pressure on the attack. Over the last 9 games we have conceded 20 goals. The attacking players know they have to score at least two goals to get a draw out of the game not to mention the opposition are always confident they will be gifted a chance to score. It has now gone on too long to think it might improve with the current personnel. Changes in January I hope. By the way we are now 2 points worse off than after the corresponding games last season.

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Re: Fearful

Post by White Duck » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:04 am

They battered us in the 2nd half and let us off by hitting the post a few times as well so it wasn't just the stupid error by Lumley that beat us really.

Really need someone out there who can organise the defence properly, a Ryan Nelsen type to lead the team as Hall is not a captain. Clearly need someone different working with the defence and midfield on the training ground as well to specifically work on their problems.
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Re: Fearful

Post by UxbridgeR » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:16 pm

Crabsandwich wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:25 am
Calm down and enjoy the ride. A lot of good football last night, we got found out in the second half as they pressed us harder and it took a stupid error to beat us. As poor as we can be defensively, we should have been out of sight by halftime and that wasn't the defence's fault.

We're way ahead of expectations but I don't get the sense that the management are relaxed or resting on their laurels. Teams like Fulham SHOULD be beating us, although of course you get a lot of odd results in the Chamopionship, but it's hard to argue that if we finish in this position we'll have massively over-achieved. This run will end, a lot of sides will lose to Fulham, Leeds and Brentford.

I'm sure we'll do something in January to shore us up at the back.
Agree with all that.

Warburton said at the fan's forum that he wants the team to play out from the back. He knows that sometimes we'll make mistakes, and that may cost us points, but believes it's the way forward. We do it very well at times, but there' s a palpable nervousness from the crowd whenever we try to do so, which can't help much.

That said, I do think the goalkeeping may be an issue. It's such a key position, and we have two fairly inexperienced players fighting to be number one. If there is any room in the budget come January, it might be worth trying to find a more experienced option, preferably one who's comfortable with the ball at his feet too. Easier said then done though.
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Re: Fearful

Post by ZENITH R » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:23 pm

As I posted a few weeks ago ... we need to look to bring in a specialist defensive coach. When MacLaren was asked to do that for Harry, results improved and we became hard to score against. When he left we reverted to having a porous defence.

When he was in charge, MacLaren tried to do everything and it was beyond him. But, when just looking at the defence he was very good. I think he is still out of work ... someone give him a ring.
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Re: Fearful

Post by White Duck » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:05 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:23 pm
As I posted a few weeks ago ... we need to look to bring in a specialist defensive coach. When MacLaren was asked to do that for Harry, results improved and we became hard to score against. When he left we reverted to having a porous defence.

When he was in charge, MacLaren tried to do everything and it was beyond him. But, when just looking at the defence he was very good. I think he is still out of work ... someone give him a ring.
Its been said before but Gerry Francis would surely help: pops up on Sky Sports quite a bit so is still involved with the game.
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Re: Fearful

Post by Rbee » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:56 pm

Our defence isn’t the best we all know that. We are just as likely to concede from set plays, open play, a hoofed ball upfield.

However in my opinion the defence is put under too much pressure as our midfield offers them little protection.

We have dropped a lot of points recently and yet our performance levels haven’t dropped to anywhere near the same degree.

It seems the opposition have learnt how to play us which is basically press us. Going forward we still look dangerous but once we lose the ball we are in trouble and it’s this side of the game causing us the most problems as far as I can see. It’s partly inexperience but partly to do with our set up too.

I am sure Mark Warburton is well aware of our shortcomings and we are a work in progress so I believe things will improve. Meantime we are still doing much better than our pre season doom and gloom.

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Re: Fearful

Post by Damien » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:06 pm

Rbee wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:56 pm
Our defence isn’t the best we all know that. We are just as likely to concede from set plays, open play, a hoofed ball upfield.

However in my opinion the defence is put under too much pressure as our midfield offers them little protection.

We have dropped a lot of points recently and yet our performance levels haven’t dropped to anywhere near the same degree.

It seems the opposition have learnt how to play us which is basically press us. Going forward we still look dangerous but once we lose the ball we are in trouble and it’s this side of the game causing us the most problems as far as I can see. It’s partly inexperience but partly to do with our set up too.

I am sure Mark Warburton is well aware of our shortcomings and we are a work in progress so I believe things will improve. Meantime we are still doing much better than our pre season doom and gloom.
Agree. I'd go further and say from what I've seen of us this season, we have a comfortable top half of the table attack... but a bottom six keeper, defence and mid-field. I expected us to struggle to stay up this season, so we're still doing better so far. But we can't just assume that the defence will suddenly stop conceding. That is going to take time - and a couple of new additions for me(defensive coach as well possibly).You don't concede as many as we do and stay in the top half unfortunately.The only team to concede more than us are Barnsley....and they are rock bottom. Interestingly I was listening to the football yesterday, and Barnsley were getting very good reports for their attacking play (they scored two and missed a lot more) - but still lost. You build from the back Mark. :o

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Re: Fearful

Post by jimjams » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:55 am

Rbee wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:56 pm
Our defence isn’t the best we all know that. We are just as likely to concede from set plays, open play, a hoofed ball upfield.

However in my opinion the defence is put under too much pressure as our midfield offers them little protection.

We have dropped a lot of points recently and yet our performance levels haven’t dropped to anywhere near the same degree.

It seems the opposition have learnt how to play us which is basically press us. Going forward we still look dangerous but once we lose the ball we are in trouble and it’s this side of the game causing us the most problems as far as I can see. It’s partly inexperience but partly to do with our set up too.

I am sure Mark Warburton is well aware of our shortcomings and we are a work in progress so I believe things will improve. Meantime we are still doing much better than our pre season doom and gloom.
I think they start by blocking the attacking midfielders' progress, ensuring it comes back to the CDMs and defenders, who don't really have the technical ability required to keep the ball under pressure. Last time BOS started he had three men around him nearly every time he got it. They didn't really press him that hard, and he is good enough with the ball at his feet that he doesn't lose it, but he can't do anything with it either so inevitably it gets passed back. Opposition knows that as long as they can keep it coming back to the likes of Scowen and Leistner, they will eventually get the ball.

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Re: Fearful

Post by ANDREW1302 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:05 pm

Sorry all but my fear grows. We were dreadful tonight and a total lack of confidence. I can't look at any one player who i thought was good . Apparently that is the most goals we have conceded in consecutive games since the 1950s. The lack of a defence is sapping all the strength from the team and dare i say our midfield of Eze, Manning, Chair looked pretty dire too. People always have said Warburton starts brilliantly and then it all goes wrong. I very much hope he has a good think and changes his style a little to just stop us conceding. Worrying times and seemingly few ideas as to how to change it. We are really starting to show why we were favorites for the drop. Need something very soon. Another tonking like tonight at Derby and it will be a real problem. And the problem is i don't see any reason why that won't happen. Now is the time for Warburton to show his worth.

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Re: Fearful

Post by Devonranger » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:19 pm

Think Barbet is a noticeable absentee - wasn't great tonight but not everything was awful either.

Three of their four scored in the last ten and individual errors contributed to at least two of those. Forest played with most of their team behind the ball and we couldn't break them down.

Despite the commentators on SKY saying that Forest were made up of free transfers and youth players, you need only look at the likely fees shelled out on Grabban, Silva and others. Think we need to go back to Rangel at right back and bring in BOS in front of him.

Think Cameron could do with coming in at centre mid and let Pugh sit in there with him - Chair left hand side with Eze playing off Wells.

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Re: Fearful

Post by Damien » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:30 pm

ANDREW1302 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:05 pm
Sorry all but my fear grows. We were dreadful tonight and a total lack of confidence. I can't look at any one player who i thought was good . Apparently that is the most goals we have conceded in consecutive games since the 1950s. The lack of a defence is sapping all the strength from the team and dare i say our midfield of Eze, Manning, Chair looked pretty dire too. People always have said Warburton starts brilliantly and then it all goes wrong. I very much hope he has a good think and changes his style a little to just stop us conceding. Worrying times and seemingly few ideas as to how to change it. We are really starting to show why we were favorites for the drop. Need something very soon. Another tonking like tonight at Derby and it will be a real problem. And the problem is i don't see any reason why that won't happen. Now is the time for Warburton to show his worth.
Thing is, this kind of slump seems to happen whoever is in charge. The whole club has a losing mentality and seems to accept it. Who is responsible for that...I'll leave others to decide?

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Re: Fearful

Post by 222gers » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:45 pm

I wasn't at the match tonight so maybe don't feel as dispirited as some. I just hope the crowd doesn't get on the players' backs too much. The club doesn't have the resources to assemble an expensive squad so we go with what we have. Even after this current run we're still in a better position than most of us expected pre-season.

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Re: Fearful

Post by QPR_John » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:02 pm

Damien wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:30 pm
ANDREW1302 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:05 pm
Sorry all but my fear grows. We were dreadful tonight and a total lack of confidence. I can't look at any one player who i thought was good . Apparently that is the most goals we have conceded in consecutive games since the 1950s. The lack of a defence is sapping all the strength from the team and dare i say our midfield of Eze, Manning, Chair looked pretty dire too. People always have said Warburton starts brilliantly and then it all goes wrong. I very much hope he has a good think and changes his style a little to just stop us conceding. Worrying times and seemingly few ideas as to how to change it. We are really starting to show why we were favorites for the drop. Need something very soon. Another tonking like tonight at Derby and it will be a real problem. And the problem is i don't see any reason why that won't happen. Now is the time for Warburton to show his worth.
Thing is, this kind of slump seems to happen whoever is in charge. The whole club has a losing mentality and seems to accept it. Who is responsible for that...I'll leave others to decide?
My thoughts exactly.

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