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westlondonlalala
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Re: back

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:00 pm

Satch wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:08 pm
westlondonlalala wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:48 pm
Devonranger wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:09 pm
Matt Smith has scored a couple for Millwall but my understanding is they are playing a style of football that suits his strengths - much prefer how MW is developing the team here and not sure MATT smith would work in that system.
So there’s a great deal of difference between Smith & Hugill then?

And that’s not being sarcastic either.
Hugill is a lot more mobile than Smith, better touch, can hold the ball up. Smith starting felt like we were down to 10 men. I'd be curious (but not curious enough to check myself) how many games we won with him starting, even when he scored.
Harsh Satch, he managed 21 goals in 37 league starts for
Qpr.

Hugill got 23 goals in 69 league starts for Preston.

Smith may not be as aesthetically pleasing on the eye but he could score a goal & must of had a hand in a fair few assists.

Also as for your point regarding how many games we won with Smith starting or even scoring in I’m not really sure where your going with that, Austin scored in 15 premier league games for us in 2014/15 but we only managed to win 6 of those games, did that make him a striker scoring goals or a negative to the team?
Last edited by westlondonlalala on Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Giorgio
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Re: back

Post by Giorgio » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:19 pm

...well...I allow that Smith was not the most technically gifted player I have seen in my life, but he was a fighter and provided/fed with the
"right ball" he could score. He was a fighter and I appreciated his stamina.
I remember him heading home jumping higher than the keeper with his stretched arms.....
then on every corner kick or free kick near the box he was always a threat for the defense and I am sure that if he had played for a "big club"
he would have got plenty of penalties for holding that instead the useless refs of the Championship did not see.... :roll: :roll:

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dm
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Re: back

Post by dm » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:31 pm

The issue with Big Smith is that you have to play to his strengths - basically slinging crosses into the box. Unless you play with two strikers with different attributes, that does limit the way a team plays. There's simply no point expecting Smith to beat his marker with a through ball, or to take on a defender with the ball at his feet.

There's no guarantee Hugill will click with us this season and I wouldn't be surprised to see Wells becoming first choice striker. Nonetheless, both strikers give the team more to work with than Smith.

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Re: back

Post by jimjams » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:52 am

If you've established yourself at the opponent's end or you have a corner, Smith is a great player to have in the mixer. He's very good at winning headers and is an underrated finished with his feet. For that reason, he's a great impact sub and that's maybe why he had so many sub appearances.
But if you start him, you basically have to play hoof ball, and run the percentages that if your wingers don't score, they can get a free kick or a corner. (I think that's an OK way of playing, as it goes, and if you stick with it he could get a 15-20 goals a season. A lot of people don't like it, though, and it's awful if it doesn't work out.) We've not been going for that, which is why he only started 7 games last year despite playing in over 30. He is not so good at holding the ball up, and more crucially he is not too mobile and his passing is quite poor. That's one reason why Wells made a difference last year: his pressing and ability to keep and pass the ball. It's also a big way in which Hugill is contributing.
It's too early to judge Hugill, but if we were to do so, I would say 1 goal in 3 and a decent overall contribution is pretty good. I don't know if the highlights are up yet, but I watched the stream live and I think they will show that the close-up chance came in behind him and was not as easy as it looked, and his flicked on header was a good effort.

Btw it's a myth that after the bad start last year SMc gave up and started hoofing it to Smith. We offloaded Sylla and Washington and brought in Wells and Hemed, who played immediately in a 442. Smith rarely started. We carried on trying to pass it, but the defence was more cautious.

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Re: back

Post by UxbridgeR » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:03 am

jimjams wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:52 am

It's too early to judge Hugill, but if we were to do so, I would say 1 goal in 3 and a decent overall contribution is pretty good. I don't know if the highlights are up yet, but I watched the stream live and I think they will show that the close-up chance came in behind him and was not as easy as it looked, and his flicked on header was a good effort.
That's exactly what they show
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Re: back

Post by Satch » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:57 am

westlondonlalala wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:00 pm
Satch wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:08 pm
westlondonlalala wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:48 pm


So there’s a great deal of difference between Smith & Hugill then?

And that’s not being sarcastic either.
Hugill is a lot more mobile than Smith, better touch, can hold the ball up. Smith starting felt like we were down to 10 men. I'd be curious (but not curious enough to check myself) how many games we won with him starting, even when he scored.
Harsh Satch, he managed 21 goals in 37 league starts for
Qpr.

Hugill got 23 goals in 69 league starts for Preston.

Smith may not be as aesthetically pleasing on the eye but he could score a goal & must of had a hand in a fair few assists.

Also as for your point regarding how many games we won with Smith starting or even scoring in I’m not really sure where your going with that, Austin scored in 15 premier league games for us in 2014/15 but we only managed to win 6 of those games, did that make him a striker scoring goals or a negative to the team?
Fair point on Austin, i'd argue we are a more competitive championship team than we were PL team. You've also highlighted to an extent why Austin, despite his prolific scoring had a ceiling. He wasn't deemed to have enough of an all around game. In the case of Austin he was pretty much our only hope. In the case of Smith i feel we'd have won more games starting a more mobile player.

In terms of the stats, i don't have all of the numbers i'd like. But to clarify he scored 21 goals and started 37 games. The goals were not necessarily in those starts. Looking at his goals a lot came late in games - often when we were chasing so i'd argue not only were his limitations detrimental to the team we also made him less effective. A decent number of those goals were also consolations or final goals when there was more than a one goal margin (the latter still valuable) I don't know how many draws he earned us but he's only credited with 3 winners from his time at the club, league and cup. (Austin scored the winner in 5 of those 6 games).

Obviously, it's very early to judge Hugill and he's clearly not an 8m player but i do think he we'll earn more points with him up to than Matt Smith. If Smith had been happy to sit on the bench and be used as a super-sub and on a salary that was appropriate for that then he'd have been worth keeping. But he didn't want that, which is more than fair.

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westlondonlalala
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Re: back

Post by westlondonlalala » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:41 pm

I guess if wells & Hugill do disappoint we aren’t tied in on an expensive investment & wages for the next 2-3yrs.
I know some aren’t keen on loans but in our current circumstances they are vital & its a relief if we can send back boxed with the receipt if they turn out to be duds.

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westlondonlalala
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Re: back

Post by westlondonlalala » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:38 pm

Bristol City 2 up at HT away to Derby, makes our defeat a tad more respectable (if that’s possible).

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Re: back

Post by Andy_N19 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:50 pm

westlondonlalala wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:41 pm
I guess if wells & Hugill do disappoint we aren’t tied in on an expensive investment & wages for the next 2-3yrs.
I know some aren’t keen on loans but in our current circumstances they are vital & its a relief if we can send back boxed with the receipt if they turn out to be duds.
Agree with all that, it just highlights the fact that we haven't unearthed a home-grown lad ourselves.
After Ray Jones (RIP) & Raheem I'm always expecting us to do that, Oteh hasn't kicked on unfortunately.
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