Financial Fair Play

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222gers
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by 222gers » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:51 pm

Systemsguy wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:46 pm
I thought the RAOIS folder was especially created for this type of nonsense that just goes over the same thing time and time again....

No real add to the discussion apart from we've been victimised ad neaseam and how unfair the EFL are... and why doesn't (insert club name) get punished as well...

IF..... theres something worth debating about and is relevant FINE
Sometimes I think this board is dying, you can go all day without a single post. I therefore welcome posts even if they are on subjects that have been discussed before. Keep 'em coming !

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by SM » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:27 pm

I’m in favour of some form of FFP, but just as ridiculous as the rules were in the beginning, they are just as silly now.

At the end of the day, if a club (or owner) wishes to invest their own money into a football club, they shouldn’t be sanctioned or have their hands tied... Certainly not to the extent that they are currently.

FFP should stop the scenarios like we had with Portsmouth a few years back, where deals are structured over many months and years on terms that they couldn’t financially afford.

They all talk about the romance and huge media love the likes of Bournemouth and particularly Leicester receive - both of which “broke” the rules to do so. So that’s two fairytales killed before we even begin on the hammering clubs will be getting next season.

In my eyes, if a club wants to pay X amount for a player, and can afford to do so upfront, they should be allowed to do so. Or set a limit that applies to all clubs regardless of turnover.

These rules don’t give any fair play whatsoever. They benefit the big boys and nobody else.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by UxbridgeR » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:49 pm

fxbghdfn wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:47 am
A lot of these clubs spending big can also sell big. I'd imagine Villa will sell Grealish for £25-30 mil in the summer and be sorted, whereas we'll sell Freeman for some Tesco clubcard vouchers.
True. Having average home crowds that are two and a half times the size of ours helps too.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by SM » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:59 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:49 pm
fxbghdfn wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:47 am
A lot of these clubs spending big can also sell big. I'd imagine Villa will sell Grealish for £25-30 mil in the summer and be sorted, whereas we'll sell Freeman for some Tesco clubcard vouchers.
True. Having average home crowds that are two and a half times the size of ours helps too.
Exactly.

Defeats the whole object of a level playing field.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by QPR_John » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:28 pm

SM wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:59 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:49 pm
fxbghdfn wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:47 am
A lot of these clubs spending big can also sell big. I'd imagine Villa will sell Grealish for £25-30 mil in the summer and be sorted, whereas we'll sell Freeman for some Tesco clubcard vouchers.
True. Having average home crowds that are two and a half times the size of ours helps too.
Exactly.

Defeats the whole object of a level playing field.
There never really was a level playing field in that teams with bigger grounds and higher attendences always had a bigger income. That's OK as far as I'm concerned but it's the artificial restrictions put on smaller clubs that have been introduced that annoys me. The rot started when home teams were allowed to keep all the gate money, then the Premier League came along to vastly increase the financial gap, the FA then made it easier for the "big" clubs to hoover up talent and the final straw was FFP.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by Greyhound » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:33 pm

FFP has actually turned our club around, because if we hadn't been embargoed and fined we would probably be spending £17m on the likes of Jordon Mutch and Julio Cesar. Instead, we get to watch players who are vastly more entertaining and productive (Eze and Freeman for example), at a fraction of the price. We also go back to our strengths and build a whole long-term approach to youth and snapping up bargains, which has always worked for us far better than profligate spending.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by QPR_John » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:43 pm

Greyhound wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:33 pm
FFP has actually turned our club around, because if we hadn't been embargoed and fined we would probably be spending £17m on the likes of Jordon Mutch and Julio Cesar. Instead, we get to watch players who are vastly more entertaining and productive (Eze and Freeman for example), at a fraction of the price. We also go back to our strengths and build a whole long-term approach to youth and snapping up bargains, which has always worked for us far better than profligate spending.
FFP has put us in our place which is mid table Championship at best. What FFP has also done is ensure we stay there. Of course there has been massive mistakes in the past, not many teams could have been taken over by multi millionaires and ended up where we are. The point is FFP means even if our owners now see their mistakes they cannot do anything about it. New owners would never be able to plan for success. The only escape FFP has left us is a new ground and look how difficult that is.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by Rbee » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:03 am

Montag wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:02 pm
We all know what a farce this EFL policy is. I wondered to myself what would REALLY constitute FFP rather than this absolute dog's turd of a policy. This is what I think, not that it counts for anything. True FFP should be a level ceiling on spending regardless of revenue generated. That way, smaller clubs could be grown as in any other business scenario providing that the owners were responsible for investment and any debt was not off-loaded onto the club. The ceiling would be based on the clubs with the highest income which is nearly always the relegated PL clubs. I don't honestly believe the current system can be legal under corporate law but no club really wants to challenge it for fear of reprisals (ala QPR). Surely, if things don't change, they'll stop as they are? What does anyone else think?
I think FFP in essence is a great idea but the problem is that it is one set of rules covering all clubs. Some of those rules should be tailored individually for each club. I sort of compare us in The Championship to Blackburn or Preston, attendances almost the same. FFP doesn't account for the fact that we are based in London are therefore all of our costs are way higher than Blackburn or Preston.

At the beginning of each season the Football League should say to QPR and all other clubs ''How much money do you intend losing this season?'' We provide them with a figure and prove that we (the owners) can cover that loss.

Perfectly simple to me, all club owners have different levels of wealth which FFP ignores. The different levels of wealth have always been and will always be in the game. FFP doesn't encourage new wealthy owners in to football.

At the moment we are slowly sliding in to Division One because of FFP which is beyond crazy.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by BiscuitRanger » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:30 am

The simple solution is to scrap FFP, FA, UEFA and FIFA.... And start again. It,s nature's way.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by QPR_John » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:42 am

Rbee wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:03 am
Montag wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:02 pm
We all know what a farce this EFL policy is. I wondered to myself what would REALLY constitute FFP rather than this absolute dog's turd of a policy. This is what I think, not that it counts for anything. True FFP should be a level ceiling on spending regardless of revenue generated. That way, smaller clubs could be grown as in any other business scenario providing that the owners were responsible for investment and any debt was not off-loaded onto the club. The ceiling would be based on the clubs with the highest income which is nearly always the relegated PL clubs. I don't honestly believe the current system can be legal under corporate law but no club really wants to challenge it for fear of reprisals (ala QPR). Surely, if things don't change, they'll stop as they are? What does anyone else think?
I think FFP in essence is a great idea but the problem is that it is one set of rules covering all clubs. Some of those rules should be tailored individually for each club. I sort of compare us in The Championship to Blackburn or Preston, attendances almost the same. FFP doesn't account for the fact that we are based in London are therefore all of our costs are way higher than Blackburn or Preston.

At the beginning of each season the Football League should say to QPR and all other clubs ''How much money do you intend losing this season?'' We provide them with a figure and prove that we (the owners) can cover that loss.

Perfectly simple to me, all club owners have different levels of wealth which FFP ignores. The different levels of wealth have always been and will always be in the game. FFP doesn't encourage new wealthy owners in to football.

At the moment we are slowly sliding in to Division One because of FFP which is beyond crazy.
Good point about the geographical position. Of course it has always has been there but with no account of non football expenditure in FFP it has become more acute.

Unfortunately your ideas are not what FFP is about. In all aspects I cannot see how anybody can now argue that FFP is not there to protect vested interests rather than what we were told that is to protect clubs from chasing success and getting into uncontrollable debt.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:28 am

QPR_John wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:42 am

Unfortunately your ideas are not what FFP is about. In all aspects I cannot see how anybody can now argue that FFP is not there to protect vested interests rather than what we were told that is to protect clubs from chasing success and getting into uncontrollable debt.
Something I was saying around 4-5 years ago when the original FFP was launched. Once I had read through the full explanation I understood it as a tool to allow the top 6-10 Premiership clubs to maintain a stranglehold on those positions, and the money associated with it, and put a stop to any other teams doing what Chelsea & Man City did with rich owners. Further; changes to the EDL and Academy category structure also allowed the top clubs to hoover up all the best young talent, without having to pay much for kids they missed on their original scoop. The real shocker is the Football League Chairman failed to understand what was happening to them at the time and voted it through after pressure from the top teams regarding money for grass roots football (and what a pack of lies that was); a situation not too dissimilar to the pack of lies spouted by both sides regarding the EU referendum. fücking shysters and wankpuffins the lot of them.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by n22hoop » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:09 pm

On this theme (and apologies if someone else has posted this previous here), Wolves 'lost £1m a week' in their Championship winning season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47453599

Expensive party.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by White Duck » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:14 pm

n22hoop wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:09 pm
On this theme (and apologies if someone else has posted this previous here), Wolves 'lost £1m a week' in their Championship winning season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47453599

Expensive party.
So have they 'failed' FFP? They must have done if they lost circa £52m in one year. Will be interesting to see what the EFL do about it.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by QPR_John » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:23 pm

White Duck wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:14 pm
n22hoop wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:09 pm
On this theme (and apologies if someone else has posted this previous here), Wolves 'lost £1m a week' in their Championship winning season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47453599

Expensive party.
So have they 'failed' FFP? They must have done if they lost circa £52m in one year. Will be interesting to see what the EFL do about it.
Doubt it, FFP is being quietly put out of its misery. The FL hope it will be forgotten, we cannot do anything so it is up to our club to monitor this. I imagine other clubs hit by minor penalties will assume it is not worth opening a can of worms.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Post by QPR-NI » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:19 pm

If you want FFP then cap player wages at £100k per year per player with a max of 30 players in any squad.

Job done.

No one goes bankrupt and everyone has a chance to win.

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