Blackburn v QPR match thread

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by 222gers » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:16 pm

It's a strange situation. Until the last few years, I always wanted the Rangers to get promotion. Now, I would dread it. Struggling every week against teams with far better players and more versed in the “dark arts”. Star-struck refs. More games being switched for Sky, no thank you very much.
And yet, it doesn't really make sense to just hope to jog along midtable in the Championship.
I dunno......

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by QPR_John » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:28 pm

222gers wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:16 pm
It's a strange situation. Until the last few years, I always wanted the Rangers to get promotion. Now, I would dread it. Struggling every week against teams with far better players and more versed in the “dark arts”. Star-struck refs. More games being switched for Sky, no thank you very much.
And yet, it doesn't really make sense to just hope to jog along midtable in the Championship.
I dunno......
Of course that is the paradox. Every time the team play you want them to win, but should this happen then promotion is a assured.

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by dm » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:11 am

I too have conflicted feelings about promotion for similar reasons mentioned above. I guess teams like Burnley, Palace, Watford and a few others show what can be achieved but it's all too easy to have a bad season and get relegated.

Nonetheless, the money comes in handy if you can keep some of it out of the pockets of players and their agents.

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by 222gers » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:45 am

dm wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:11 am
I too have conflicted feelings about promotion for similar reasons mentioned above. I guess teams like Burnley, Palace, Watford and a few others show what can be achieved but it's all too easy to have a bad season and get relegated.

Nonetheless, the money comes in handy if you can keep some of it out of the pockets of players and their agents.
Aye, there's the rub - the players' gold lined pockets. Some say insist on relegation clauses in players' contracts but it's a seller's market and the players hold all the aces. I blame Jimmy Hill.

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:22 am

It's been good to have a robust debate without it turning into something else.
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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by stainrod's elbow » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:45 am

Re the potential consequences of promotion to the Promised Land (and also our new stadium fantasy, as I think they're connected for some at the club), we need to look at positive role models - Fulham (OK, not this season so far), Bournemouth, Burnley (see Fulham), Watford, Palace. For some reason, they all seem to have made a decent fist of it in recent years, and, blow me down with a blue and white feather, without feeling the need to move to a new 35k stadium.

We had such a shit time of it in recent years in the Prem, I'd say, because (i) we came up with squads we couldn't/wouldn't believe in or keep faith with, (ii) we didn't support the manager (who may or may not have been the right manager - namely, Warnock), (iii) backed a loser (Hughes) (iv) saddled ourselves with 'Arry (who luckily got us back up, of course, but then . . .), and (v) spunked our budget disastrously on mediocrities and/or mercenaries like Park, Boswanker and Barton on eye-watering contracts. In short, none of those incarnations of the club had real unity or credibility, and, as we know, the FFP fall-out leaves us all bitter, sick and/or a bit twisted as we suck it up.

If we went up with a hungry and talented squad, under properly bonded management and chairmanship, I'd love to see what we could do, of course. But not before.
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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by stainrod's elbow » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:08 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:53 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:15 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:05 pm
How long do you think it would be, once we were promoted, before the toxic element of the fan base was screaming for sackings etc. if no money was spent on building a team to challenge the to six?
Pushing for the playoffs is exactly what I would like to see as it would mean we are winning a fair few games but I wouldn't trust a lot of our fans as far as I could see them to be content with a smash and grab in the EPL just for the cash. As soon as we were up they would be wanting the cash splashed to "make us competitive". I'll take 7th to 10th all day long for a few years.
You talk about the fan base. After our last experience I doubt anybody who called themselves a fan would want us to go down that route again. I'd go for a fair few years as a yo-yo club for the money. Would not necessarily be happy with being beaten on a regular basis in the Premier League but we live in the real world
That's with you being one of the rational fans, you've seen what a clusterfück Twitter etc. is after a single defeat in the Championship. What chance would the youngsters being developed have? How many more managers would we sack every six months pandering to the butthurt morons on social media. I stand by my stance.
Etymologically speaking, doesn't that mean you're technically standing in two places? :D
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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:34 pm

My schizophrenia permits it. :D
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by stainrod's elbow » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:47 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by stainrod's elbow » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:22 am
It's been good to have a robust debate without it turning into something else.
I agree. Though it gives me a perverse attraction to turning into 'something else' - just for the hell of it! :twisted:
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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by QPR_John » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:37 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:45 am
Re the potential consequences of promotion to the Promised Land (and also our new stadium fantasy, as I think they're connected for some at the club), we need to look at positive role models - Fulham (OK, not this season so far), Bournemouth, Burnley (see Fulham), Watford, Palace. For some reason, they all seem to have made a decent fist of it in recent years, and, blow me down with a blue and white feather, without feeling the need to move to a new 35k stadium.

We had such a shit time of it in recent years in the Prem, I'd say, because (i) we came up with squads we couldn't/wouldn't believe in or keep faith with, (ii) we didn't support the manager (who may or may not have been the right manager - namely, Warnock), (iii) backed a loser (Hughes) (iv) saddled ourselves with 'Arry (who luckily got us back up, of course, but then . . .), and (v) spunked our budget disastrously on mediocrities and/or mercenaries like Park, Boswanker and Barton on eye-watering contracts. In short, none of those incarnations of the club had real unity or credibility, and, as we know, the FFP fall-out leaves us all bitter, sick and/or a bit twisted as we suck it up.

If we went up with a hungry and talented squad, under properly bonded management and chairmanship, I'd love to see what we could do, of course. But not before.
Apart from Bournemouth, and won't there be a fire sale if they get relegated, they all have stadiums with a maximum greater that 18k. Whatever the argument about what capacity we would need it is a fact 18k is not a basis to go forward.

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by stainrod's elbow » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:04 pm

QPR_John wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:37 pm
stainrod's elbow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:45 am
Re the potential consequences of promotion to the Promised Land (and also our new stadium fantasy, as I think they're connected for some at the club), we need to look at positive role models - Fulham (OK, not this season so far), Bournemouth, Burnley (see Fulham), Watford, Palace. For some reason, they all seem to have made a decent fist of it in recent years, and, blow me down with a blue and white feather, without feeling the need to move to a new 35k stadium.

We had such a shit time of it in recent years in the Prem, I'd say, because (i) we came up with squads we couldn't/wouldn't believe in or keep faith with, (ii) we didn't support the manager (who may or may not have been the right manager - namely, Warnock), (iii) backed a loser (Hughes) (iv) saddled ourselves with 'Arry (who luckily got us back up, of course, but then . . .), and (v) spunked our budget disastrously on mediocrities and/or mercenaries like Park, Boswanker and Barton on eye-watering contracts. In short, none of those incarnations of the club had real unity or credibility, and, as we know, the FFP fall-out leaves us all bitter, sick and/or a bit twisted as we suck it up.

If we went up with a hungry and talented squad, under properly bonded management and chairmanship, I'd love to see what we could do, of course. But not before.
Apart from Bournemouth, and won't there be a fire sale if they get relegated, they all have stadiums with a maximum greater that 18k. Whatever the argument about what capacity we would need it is a fact 18k is not a basis to go forward.
Not by much - 21k-25k in every case. I have already made a case for safe standing at LR, which, depending on the architectrual minutiae, has been calibrated as offering between a 1.5-2.0 per seat capacity extension. (Though there's clearly no mindset to explore this at LR seriously, or even get properly acquainted with the facts.) I don't think we need much more capacity than what we have - even in our halcyon days in Europe in the mid 70s, we were only pulling in 20-22k for the likes of Cologne. But, whether you agree or not, why is it still so hard for some people to understand that ground capacity/gate receipts just don't matter that much in the Prem as Sky/TV revenue and sponsorship play a much more significant part?

But like most lone voices who attempt to introduce some sane critical thinking, I'm sure I'll be shat on from a height by the usual suspects.
"There's a blue light/in my best friend's room" -Mazzy Star

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by ZENITH R » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:32 pm

From a footballing point of view the Championship is the place to be. Much more competitive, anyone can beat anyone on the day, and the unpredictability makes it much more fun to watch.

From a financial point of view ... it’s the Premiership all day long.

Maybe the best of both worlds is to yo-yo between the two, enjoying the good years and not getting too stressed by the bad ones, while cannily putting aside the cash to secure the long term survival, and improve the infrastructure.
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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by QPR_John » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:41 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:04 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:37 pm
stainrod's elbow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:45 am
Re the potential consequences of promotion to the Promised Land (and also our new stadium fantasy, as I think they're connected for some at the club), we need to look at positive role models - Fulham (OK, not this season so far), Bournemouth, Burnley (see Fulham), Watford, Palace. For some reason, they all seem to have made a decent fist of it in recent years, and, blow me down with a blue and white feather, without feeling the need to move to a new 35k stadium.

We had such a shit time of it in recent years in the Prem, I'd say, because (i) we came up with squads we couldn't/wouldn't believe in or keep faith with, (ii) we didn't support the manager (who may or may not have been the right manager - namely, Warnock), (iii) backed a loser (Hughes) (iv) saddled ourselves with 'Arry (who luckily got us back up, of course, but then . . .), and (v) spunked our budget disastrously on mediocrities and/or mercenaries like Park, Boswanker and Barton on eye-watering contracts. In short, none of those incarnations of the club had real unity or credibility, and, as we know, the FFP fall-out leaves us all bitter, sick and/or a bit twisted as we suck it up.

If we went up with a hungry and talented squad, under properly bonded management and chairmanship, I'd love to see what we could do, of course. But not before.
Apart from Bournemouth, and won't there be a fire sale if they get relegated, they all have stadiums with a maximum greater that 18k. Whatever the argument about what capacity we would need it is a fact 18k is not a basis to go forward.
Not by much - 21k-25k in every case. I have already made a case for safe standing at LR, which, depending on the architectrual minutiae, has been calibrated as offering between a 1.5-2.0 per seat capacity extension. (Though there's clearly no mindset to explore this at LR seriously, or even get properly acquainted with the facts.) I don't think we need much more capacity than what we have - even in our halcyon days in Europe in the mid 70s, we were only pulling in 20-22k for the likes of Cologne. But, whether you agree or not, why is it still so hard for some people to understand that ground capacity/gate receipts just don't matter that much in the Prem as Sky/TV revenue and sponsorship play a much more significant part?

But like most lone voices who attempt to introduce some sane critical thinking, I'm sure I'll be shat on from a height by the usual suspects.
By your figures thats 16.6% to 38.8% more than us not an insignificent amount. Standing may well increase capacity but by how much would gate receipts increase. As to your point re Sky/TV revenue in the Premier League, you have to get there first. With FFP and a ground capacity of only 18k that will become even more difficult. How will we generate the income to attact the better Championship players.
Last edited by QPR_John on Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blackburn v QPR match thread

Post by ZENITH R » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:42 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:04 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:37 pm
stainrod's elbow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:45 am
Re the potential consequences of promotion to the Promised Land (and also our new stadium fantasy, as I think they're connected for some at the club), we need to look at positive role models - Fulham (OK, not this season so far), Bournemouth, Burnley (see Fulham), Watford, Palace. For some reason, they all seem to have made a decent fist of it in recent years, and, blow me down with a blue and white feather, without feeling the need to move to a new 35k stadium.

We had such a shit time of it in recent years in the Prem, I'd say, because (i) we came up with squads we couldn't/wouldn't believe in or keep faith with, (ii) we didn't support the manager (who may or may not have been the right manager - namely, Warnock), (iii) backed a loser (Hughes) (iv) saddled ourselves with 'Arry (who luckily got us back up, of course, but then . . .), and (v) spunked our budget disastrously on mediocrities and/or mercenaries like Park, Boswanker and Barton on eye-watering contracts. In short, none of those incarnations of the club had real unity or credibility, and, as we know, the FFP fall-out leaves us all bitter, sick and/or a bit twisted as we suck it up.

If we went up with a hungry and talented squad, under properly bonded management and chairmanship, I'd love to see what we could do, of course. But not before.
Apart from Bournemouth, and won't there be a fire sale if they get relegated, they all have stadiums with a maximum greater that 18k. Whatever the argument about what capacity we would need it is a fact 18k is not a basis to go forward.
Not by much - 21k-25k in every case. I have already made a case for safe standing at LR, which, depending on the architectrual minutiae, has been calibrated as offering between a 1.5-2.0 per seat capacity extension. (Though there's clearly no mindset to explore this at LR seriously, or even get properly acquainted with the facts.) I don't think we need much more capacity than what we have - even in our halcyon days in Europe in the mid 70s, we were only pulling in 20-22k for the likes of Cologne. But, whether you agree or not, why is it still so hard for some people to understand that ground capacity/gate receipts just don't matter that much in the Prem as Sky/TV revenue and sponsorship play a much more significant part?

But like most lone voices who attempt to introduce some sane critical thinking, I'm sure I'll be shat on from a height by the usual suspects.

You are right about the Sky revenue, but that only works if you are in the Premiership and crucially stay there. We haven’t managed that for a very long time. By stay there I mean at least four consecutive seasons. There are two other factors to bear in mind .... being able to attract players to take the club forward - that is much easier if the infrastructure is 21st century. The second point is that off pitch revenue does offer some help towards the savagery of FFP.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

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Growing up is optional.

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