Safe Standing @ LR

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UxbridgeR
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:00 am

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:21 am

Sorry, no, Hannover has either 1.8-1 or even 2 to 1. It depends on the ground and architecture.
That's precisely the point Zenith was making. If you were to rebuild LR today as an all seater stadium in the same space, the capacity would have to be reduced, as health and safety regulations are more stringent than they were at the time the various stands were built / renovated.

There's no space to just add a safe standing area, without taking out existing seats.

By my reckoning, we'd have to take out 7k seats to get to the overall 24k capacity you're talking about above. That would mean we would have more people standing than sitting.

At Celtic and Shrewsbury, safe standing represents about 5-6% of the total capacity.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Esox Lucius » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:01 am

Your village called, they need you back.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:02 am

I resent that :wink:
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by ZENITH R » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:54 am

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:21 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:13 am
stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 am


I might feel more convinced of Hoos' suspiciously propagandist efforts re leaving the ground/borough (even using the club website again lately to 'win over hearts and minds') come what may on the pitch if I saw a list of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. Until then, I just don't buy it.

The figures I quote re safe standing are from, as far as I am aware, a credible source, though the actual stats here depend on the ground. Hoos obviously doesn't care about the issue, and in fact is seeking to undermine it, as he's gone on record as saying, ignorantly, safe standing is a '1-1' deal re seated stadia.

It's bizarre to claim that LR could never draw 25k again - why on earth not? (Which also makes the idea of moving to a super-sized new stadium even more unintelligible.)

The bottom line is the authoritarianism of posters like LanCat arises from certain people swallowing hook, line and sinker a relatively recent propaganda drive on the subject. I don't sign up for it, that's all, and question the motives behind it. I also think that our ground is so central to our soul that leaving it (as West Ham fans have discovered) could be tantamount to the club's soul-murder. And once that's gone, we don't get it back.

If you look at the pictures of safe standing that has already been installed - for example in Germany and I think Shrewsbury (might be wrong) - these show a seat with an individual rail in front of it. So, it is quite correct to say it's a 1-1 deal. In fact, because Loftus Road has such limited leg room, it might even reduce the capacity to install the rails.

As for the figures of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. It is widely acknowledged within football that this additional revenue is a life saver. Through work I have attended a number of corporate events at football stadia in England - Arsenal at The Emirates, Derby, Villa Park, Forest, Coventry and Leicester to name a few. These are not cheap, but corporate bodies are happy to shell out for a large room for a conference, meeting or training. Throw in lunch, tea and coffee and a mid morning snack and the cost rockets. There are plenty willing to pay, and as long as the costs are competitive it's easy money. Then there is the birthday party/ wedding crowd ...

You might not like the idea of leaving Loftus Road, but from a purely economic point of view it makes perfect sense. This isn't some hair brained scheme dreamed up by Lee Hoos and Les Ferdinand to rip us off and destroy our heritage, there is lots of data to demonstrate this is sound financial management.

As for leaving Loftus Road ... we have had more home grounds (a lot more) than any other club in the football league. I wonder if there was much angst when we last moved to the White City in 1962. I understand why people didn't like it and we moved back (primarily the dog track between the pitch and the fans), but what was the reaction before the move?
Sorry, no, Hannover has either 1.8-1 or even 2 to 1. It depends on the ground and architecture.

Fortunately, for me, football isn't a 'purely economic' matter - and it's historically been mostly a loss-making enterprise.

I stand by my sense that Hoos et al don't care about LR, don'#t understand safe standing (and don't want to), and couldn't even organise a POTY event. You may trust them with our future - I don't!

The cost was too much (we had to hire a separate venue - 'cos we don't have the room at Loftus Road for such an event). A new stadium would solve that problem. So, you have strengthened the counter point and weakened your own by putting that in. ooops! :oops:
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:23 am

Can't see that I have - it's just obvious that Hoos wants to paint the clubs' facilities in the worst possible light. Why did we have no problem, apparently, arranging these events in years gone by, and no other club in the country has a problem?
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by ZENITH R » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:49 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:23 am
Can't see that I have - it's just obvious that Hoos wants to paint the clubs' facilities in the worst possible light. Why did we have no problem, apparently, arranging these events in years gone by, and no other club in the country has a problem?
We haven't held the POTY event at Loftus Road for some years - for all of the reasons mentioned. There comes a point when numbers and costs make the event not viable - the exact position I believe why the POTY was cancelled.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Esox Lucius » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:16 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:23 am
Can't see that I have - it's just obvious that I want to paint the clubs' facilities in the worst possible light.
You could have just left it at that. Your village is still waiting for you to come back.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Satch » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:26 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:23 am
Can't see that I have - it's just obvious that Hoos wants to paint the clubs' facilities in the worst possible light. Why did we have no problem, apparently, arranging these events in years gone by, and no other club in the country has a problem?
Have you been to LR recently? I love the place and if we didn't need to leave i wouldn't want to but it doesn't take any effort to portray the facilities poorly.

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by ZENITH R » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:41 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:21 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:13 am
stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 am


I might feel more convinced of Hoos' suspiciously propagandist efforts re leaving the ground/borough (even using the club website again lately to 'win over hearts and minds') come what may on the pitch if I saw a list of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. Until then, I just don't buy it.

The figures I quote re safe standing are from, as far as I am aware, a credible source, though the actual stats here depend on the ground. Hoos obviously doesn't care about the issue, and in fact is seeking to undermine it, as he's gone on record as saying, ignorantly, safe standing is a '1-1' deal re seated stadia.

It's bizarre to claim that LR could never draw 25k again - why on earth not? (Which also makes the idea of moving to a super-sized new stadium even more unintelligible.)

The bottom line is the authoritarianism of posters like LanCat arises from certain people swallowing hook, line and sinker a relatively recent propaganda drive on the subject. I don't sign up for it, that's all, and question the motives behind it. I also think that our ground is so central to our soul that leaving it (as West Ham fans have discovered) could be tantamount to the club's soul-murder. And once that's gone, we don't get it back.

If you look at the pictures of safe standing that has already been installed - for example in Germany and I think Shrewsbury (might be wrong) - these show a seat with an individual rail in front of it. So, it is quite correct to say it's a 1-1 deal. In fact, because Loftus Road has such limited leg room, it might even reduce the capacity to install the rails.

As for the figures of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. It is widely acknowledged within football that this additional revenue is a life saver. Through work I have attended a number of corporate events at football stadia in England - Arsenal at The Emirates, Derby, Villa Park, Forest, Coventry and Leicester to name a few. These are not cheap, but corporate bodies are happy to shell out for a large room for a conference, meeting or training. Throw in lunch, tea and coffee and a mid morning snack and the cost rockets. There are plenty willing to pay, and as long as the costs are competitive it's easy money. Then there is the birthday party/ wedding crowd ...

You might not like the idea of leaving Loftus Road, but from a purely economic point of view it makes perfect sense. This isn't some hair brained scheme dreamed up by Lee Hoos and Les Ferdinand to rip us off and destroy our heritage, there is lots of data to demonstrate this is sound financial management.

As for leaving Loftus Road ... we have had more home grounds (a lot more) than any other club in the football league. I wonder if there was much angst when we last moved to the White City in 1962. I understand why people didn't like it and we moved back (primarily the dog track between the pitch and the fans), but what was the reaction before the move?
Sorry, no, Hannover has either 1.8-1 or even 2 to 1. It depends on the ground and architecture.

Fortunately, for me, football isn't a 'purely economic' matter - and it's historically been mostly a loss-making enterprise.

I stand by my sense that Hoos et al don't care about LR, don'#t understand safe standing (and don't want to), and couldn't even organise a POTY event. You may trust them with our future - I don't!

I was at Loftus Road last Saturday. It was 'cosy' with those sitting next to me, and my knees were chaffed by the seat in front. So, you are right in saying it depends on the ground and architecture. Sadly, Loftus Road is way too small, and there isn't a prayer of having 1.8 or 2 to 1. The likelihood is this would actually reduce the capacity. Take a trip there and look at the seats with a view of replacing with safe standing. Common sense would tell you straight away there was a huge problem with trying to do this.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
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Growing up is optional.

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:04 pm

A feasibility study would be nice. But the driver is, of course, leave, leave, leave, though we competed very well as London's top club in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. As even Hoos admits, ground revenue hardly matters once you're in the Premiership anyway.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by dm » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:12 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:04 pm
A feasibility study would be nice. But the driver is, of course, leave, leave, leave, though we competed very well as London's top club in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. As even Hoos admits, ground revenue hardly matters once you're in the Premiership anyway.
Are you seriously pointing to what QPR and football was like 50, 40, and 30 years ago as part of the basis for your argument for staying at Loftus Road? I thought you were a reasonably intelligent chap Mr Elbow, but to think football is much the same as it was those days is foolish in the extreme.

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:28 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:04 pm
A feasibility study would be nice. But the driver is, of course, leave, leave, leave, though we competed very well as London's top club in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. As even Hoos admits, ground revenue hardly matters once you're in the Premiership anyway.
Perfectly true. But since we've been in the PL for only 3 of the last 22 seasons, you can hardly blame the club for not banking on that.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Don Gibbons » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:00 pm

LanCat wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am
We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.
Great post LanCat.. but where does your assertion "the ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year" come from?

Which London/English/European football stadium is currently operational 100+ day a year?

And even if QPR magically had a 40,000 seater stadium today, it's not as if there isn't any competition from the likes of the Emirates, Olympic stadium, Wembley, O2, the new Spurs stadium etc...

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by sparkypark » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:35 pm

Don Gibbons wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:00 pm
LanCat wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am
We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.
Great post LanCat.. but where does your assertion "the ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year" come from?

Which London/English/European football stadium is currently operational 100+ day a year?

And even if QPR magically had a 40,000 seater stadium today, it's not as if there isn't any competition from the likes of the Emirates, Olympic stadium, Wembley, O2, the new Spurs stadium etc...
Stadiums operational 100+ days a year include, in London alone, Wembley, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham when they were at the Boleyn ground, and Millwall. Each of those have meeting and conference facilities, meaning they are bringing in money throughout the year, not just on the occasional day. I suspect the new Spurs ground will have extensive conference facilities too because that is vital to a modern football club.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Don Gibbons » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:03 pm

sparkypark wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:35 pm
Don Gibbons wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:00 pm
LanCat wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am
We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.


Great post LanCat.. but where does your assertion "the ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year" come from?

Which London/English/European football stadium is currently operational 100+ day a year?

And even if QPR magically had a 40,000 seater stadium today, it's not as if there isn't any competition from the likes of the Emirates, Olympic stadium, Wembley, O2, the new Spurs stadium etc...
Stadiums operational 100+ days a year include, in London alone, Wembley, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham when they were at the Boleyn ground, and Millwall. Each of those have meeting and conference facilities, meaning they are bringing in money throughout the year, not just on the occasional day. I suspect the new Spurs ground will have extensive conference facilities too because that is vital to a modern football club.
My misunderstanding.. I thought he meant using the pitch operationally... for the Saudi Cup, US Football &/or the Barry McGigan comeback fight..

:?

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