Safe Standing @ LR

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stainrod's elbow
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Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:35 pm

Listen and learn, Lee Hoos. Sort out the Loft and the School End could see our ground capacity back up to £24-25k for starters and a considerable hike in gate receipts.

Mind you, that wouldn't fit the 'business plan' and Thatcherite 'there is no alternative' mantra, would it? (Far better to listen to the professionals, leave the borough, and rip the soul out of the club, I'm sure.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45341192

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/t ... case-for-3
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Satch » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:50 pm

You're flipping obsessed.

What's the point in us increasing the capacity to 25k via safe standing, we're not filling the ground now.

Your desire to portray Lee Hoos as some kind of exemplification of neo-liberal ideology is frankly very odd.

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Greyhound » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:05 pm

Leave the troll alone.

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by Andy_N19 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:19 pm

What on earth is Elbow on about?
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by UxbridgeR » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:31 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:35 pm
Listen and learn, Lee Hoos. Sort out the Loft and the School End could see our ground capacity back up to £24-25k for starters and a considerable hike in gate receipts.

Mind you, that wouldn't fit the 'business plan' and Thatcherite 'there is no alternative' mantra, would it? (Far better to listen to the professionals, leave the borough, and rip the soul out of the club, I'm sure.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45341192

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/t ... case-for-3
"Could see". That would represent a 30% increase on our current capacity, and by your own admission would be partially dependent on visiting fans for us to make your purported "considerable hike in gate receipts".

No sensibly run business would be relying on that kind of utopian calculation.

I'd stick to rummaging through Lee Hoos' bins if I were you. Maybe eventually you'll find the dirt you're looking for. Or the help you need.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:56 pm

Satch wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:50 pm
You're flipping obsessed.

What's the point in us increasing the capacity to 25k via safe standing, we're not filling the ground now.

Your desire to portray Lee Hoos as some kind of exemplification of neo-liberal ideology is frankly very odd.
So, presumably, you're even more against leaving LR for a 30k-35k new ground on that basis?

Glad to sort that out.
"There's a blue light/in my best friend's room" -Mazzy Star

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by ZENITH R » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:55 am

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:35 pm
Listen and learn, Lee Hoos. Sort out the Loft and the School End could see our ground capacity back up to £24-25k for starters and a considerable hike in gate receipts.

Mind you, that wouldn't fit the 'business plan' and Thatcherite 'there is no alternative' mantra, would it? (Far better to listen to the professionals, leave the borough, and rip the soul out of the club, I'm sure.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45341192

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/t ... case-for-3
The main issue with Loftus Road is not the match day capacity, but the ability to generate additional revenue from non-football activities. Safe standing would have absolutely no effect on that. Therefore, not worth the time, money or effort to go down that road. The new stadium would be a different matter.
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by LanCat » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am

Is it my turn to state the bleedin’ obvious again?

The need for a new ground has nothing to do with a capacity increase for a few games.

We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.

More to the point of the original post. The safe standing people have worked out that the increase in capacity provided by moving from seats to the safe standing system is 12%. So even if you converted every seat to standing you’d only get another 2200 people in and a new capacity of 20,500. That’s every seat turned to safe standing. Not happening. At best converting all seats in both tiers of the Loft and School End will add maybe 700. Where are your other 6000 coming from?

Even if capacity was the only issue, the truth is that you will never get 25k in LR again. The world has moved on. Safe standing is not standing as it was in times past and never will be. South York’s police made sure of that.

Whether or not Lee Hoos is truly the prince of darkness or Elbow just has a think for small yanks, I couldn’t imagine. :shock:

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by dm » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:41 am

Very good post LanCat but I suspect your well reasoned argument will be in vain. There's none so deaf as those who will not hear and all that.

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 am

LanCat wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am
Is it my turn to state the bleedin’ obvious again?

The need for a new ground has nothing to do with a capacity increase for a few games.

We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.

More to the point of the original post. The safe standing people have worked out that the increase in capacity provided by moving from seats to the safe standing system is 12%. So even if you converted every seat to standing you’d only get another 2200 people in and a new capacity of 20,500. That’s every seat turned to safe standing. Not happening. At best converting all seats in both tiers of the Loft and School End will add maybe 700. Where are your other 6000 coming from?

Even if capacity was the only issue, the truth is that you will never get 25k in LR again. The world has moved on. Safe standing is not standing as it was in times past and never will be. South York’s police made sure of that.

Whether or not Lee Hoos is truly the prince of darkness or Elbow just has a think for small yanks, I couldn’t imagine. :shock:
I might feel more convinced of Hoos' suspiciously propagandist efforts re leaving the ground/borough (even using the club website again lately to 'win over hearts and minds') come what may on the pitch if I saw a list of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. Until then, I just don't buy it.

The figures I quote re safe standing are from, as far as I am aware, a credible source, though the actual stats here depend on the ground. Hoos obviously doesn't care about the issue, and in fact is seeking to undermine it, as he's gone on record as saying, ignorantly, safe standing is a '1-1' deal re seated stadia.

It's bizarre to claim that LR could never draw 25k again - why on earth not? (Which also makes the idea of moving to a super-sized new stadium even more unintelligible.)

The bottom line is the authoritarianism of posters like LanCat arises from certain people swallowing hook, line and sinker a relatively recent propaganda drive on the subject. I don't sign up for it, that's all, and question the motives behind it. I also think that our ground is so central to our soul that leaving it (as West Ham fans have discovered) could be tantamount to the club's soul-murder. And once that's gone, we don't get it back.
"There's a blue light/in my best friend's room" -Mazzy Star

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:47 am

dm wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:41 am
Very good post LanCat but I suspect your well reasoned argument will be in vain. There's none so deaf as those who will not hear and all that.
O please give over, you sanctimonious prat!
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by dm » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:52 am

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:47 am
dm wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:41 am
Very good post LanCat but I suspect your well reasoned argument will be in vain. There's none so deaf as those who will not hear and all that.
O please give over, you sanctimonious prat!
:lol:

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by ZENITH R » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:13 am

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 am
LanCat wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am
Is it my turn to state the bleedin’ obvious again?

The need for a new ground has nothing to do with a capacity increase for a few games.

We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.

More to the point of the original post. The safe standing people have worked out that the increase in capacity provided by moving from seats to the safe standing system is 12%. So even if you converted every seat to standing you’d only get another 2200 people in and a new capacity of 20,500. That’s every seat turned to safe standing. Not happening. At best converting all seats in both tiers of the Loft and School End will add maybe 700. Where are your other 6000 coming from?

Even if capacity was the only issue, the truth is that you will never get 25k in LR again. The world has moved on. Safe standing is not standing as it was in times past and never will be. South York’s police made sure of that.

Whether or not Lee Hoos is truly the prince of darkness or Elbow just has a think for small yanks, I couldn’t imagine. :shock:
I might feel more convinced of Hoos' suspiciously propagandist efforts re leaving the ground/borough (even using the club website again lately to 'win over hearts and minds') come what may on the pitch if I saw a list of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. Until then, I just don't buy it.

The figures I quote re safe standing are from, as far as I am aware, a credible source, though the actual stats here depend on the ground. Hoos obviously doesn't care about the issue, and in fact is seeking to undermine it, as he's gone on record as saying, ignorantly, safe standing is a '1-1' deal re seated stadia.

It's bizarre to claim that LR could never draw 25k again - why on earth not? (Which also makes the idea of moving to a super-sized new stadium even more unintelligible.)

The bottom line is the authoritarianism of posters like LanCat arises from certain people swallowing hook, line and sinker a relatively recent propaganda drive on the subject. I don't sign up for it, that's all, and question the motives behind it. I also think that our ground is so central to our soul that leaving it (as West Ham fans have discovered) could be tantamount to the club's soul-murder. And once that's gone, we don't get it back.

If you look at the pictures of safe standing that has already been installed - for example in Germany and I think Shrewsbury (might be wrong) - these show a seat with an individual rail in front of it. So, it is quite correct to say it's a 1-1 deal. In fact, because Loftus Road has such limited leg room, it might even reduce the capacity to install the rails.

As for the figures of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. It is widely acknowledged within football that this additional revenue is a life saver. Through work I have attended a number of corporate events at football stadia in England - Arsenal at The Emirates, Derby, Villa Park, Forest, Coventry and Leicester to name a few. These are not cheap, but corporate bodies are happy to shell out for a large room for a conference, meeting or training. Throw in lunch, tea and coffee and a mid morning snack and the cost rockets. There are plenty willing to pay, and as long as the costs are competitive it's easy money. Then there is the birthday party/ wedding crowd ...

You might not like the idea of leaving Loftus Road, but from a purely economic point of view it makes perfect sense. This isn't some hair brained scheme dreamed up by Lee Hoos and Les Ferdinand to rip us off and destroy our heritage, there is lots of data to demonstrate this is sound financial management.

As for leaving Loftus Road ... we have had more home grounds (a lot more) than any other club in the football league. I wonder if there was much angst when we last moved to the White City in 1962. I understand why people didn't like it and we moved back (primarily the dog track between the pitch and the fans), but what was the reaction before the move?
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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by LanCat » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:20 am

Authoritarianism. Wow. That’s a first for me!

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Re: Safe Standing @ LR

Post by stainrod's elbow » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:21 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:13 am
stainrod's elbow wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 am
LanCat wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 am
Is it my turn to state the bleedin’ obvious again?

The need for a new ground has nothing to do with a capacity increase for a few games.

We have an old stadium which costs a lot to run and 25 games a season does not bring enough revenue in to pay for running a football club. Not even with 25k attending each time and especially not when the prevailing pressure is to keep ticket prices low. The ground needs to be operating as a revenue generator at least 100 days a year. A new facility can do that, LR cannot.

More to the point of the original post. The safe standing people have worked out that the increase in capacity provided by moving from seats to the safe standing system is 12%. So even if you converted every seat to standing you’d only get another 2200 people in and a new capacity of 20,500. That’s every seat turned to safe standing. Not happening. At best converting all seats in both tiers of the Loft and School End will add maybe 700. Where are your other 6000 coming from?

Even if capacity was the only issue, the truth is that you will never get 25k in LR again. The world has moved on. Safe standing is not standing as it was in times past and never will be. South York’s police made sure of that.

Whether or not Lee Hoos is truly the prince of darkness or Elbow just has a think for small yanks, I couldn’t imagine. :shock:
I might feel more convinced of Hoos' suspiciously propagandist efforts re leaving the ground/borough (even using the club website again lately to 'win over hearts and minds') come what may on the pitch if I saw a list of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. Until then, I just don't buy it.

The figures I quote re safe standing are from, as far as I am aware, a credible source, though the actual stats here depend on the ground. Hoos obviously doesn't care about the issue, and in fact is seeking to undermine it, as he's gone on record as saying, ignorantly, safe standing is a '1-1' deal re seated stadia.

It's bizarre to claim that LR could never draw 25k again - why on earth not? (Which also makes the idea of moving to a super-sized new stadium even more unintelligible.)

The bottom line is the authoritarianism of posters like LanCat arises from certain people swallowing hook, line and sinker a relatively recent propaganda drive on the subject. I don't sign up for it, that's all, and question the motives behind it. I also think that our ground is so central to our soul that leaving it (as West Ham fans have discovered) could be tantamount to the club's soul-murder. And once that's gone, we don't get it back.

If you look at the pictures of safe standing that has already been installed - for example in Germany and I think Shrewsbury (might be wrong) - these show a seat with an individual rail in front of it. So, it is quite correct to say it's a 1-1 deal. In fact, because Loftus Road has such limited leg room, it might even reduce the capacity to install the rails.

As for the figures of comparative figures for the extra-match profitabablity from other clubs of similar size and stature. It is widely acknowledged within football that this additional revenue is a life saver. Through work I have attended a number of corporate events at football stadia in England - Arsenal at The Emirates, Derby, Villa Park, Forest, Coventry and Leicester to name a few. These are not cheap, but corporate bodies are happy to shell out for a large room for a conference, meeting or training. Throw in lunch, tea and coffee and a mid morning snack and the cost rockets. There are plenty willing to pay, and as long as the costs are competitive it's easy money. Then there is the birthday party/ wedding crowd ...

You might not like the idea of leaving Loftus Road, but from a purely economic point of view it makes perfect sense. This isn't some hair brained scheme dreamed up by Lee Hoos and Les Ferdinand to rip us off and destroy our heritage, there is lots of data to demonstrate this is sound financial management.

As for leaving Loftus Road ... we have had more home grounds (a lot more) than any other club in the football league. I wonder if there was much angst when we last moved to the White City in 1962. I understand why people didn't like it and we moved back (primarily the dog track between the pitch and the fans), but what was the reaction before the move?
Sorry, no, Hannover has either 1.8-1 or even 2 to 1. It depends on the ground and architecture.

Fortunately, for me, football isn't a 'purely economic' matter - and it's historically been mostly a loss-making enterprise.

I stand by my sense that Hoos et al don't care about LR, don'#t understand safe standing (and don't want to), and couldn't even organise a POTY event. You may trust them with our future - I don't!
"There's a blue light/in my best friend's room" -Mazzy Star

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