Smithies off to Cardiff

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westlondonlalala
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by westlondonlalala » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:08 pm

222gers wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:00 pm
westlondonlalala wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:44 pm
StevenageRanger wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:38 pm
Just FLIPPING aorund on a Cardiff Forum to see any thoughts on this.

The big thing for them is that Hoilett has signed!

They love him.

http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewt ... 2&t=197727

Why didn't he do wonders for us?
He was instrumental for them last season.
Guitar player was 'e ?
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by ZENITH R » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:40 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:59 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:39 am
Middlesbrough just paid £7,000,000 for a Brizzle City midfielder.
Who ?
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by DBHoops » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:56 pm

Alex Smithies has been great for us but does everyone remember his first game? When he came on after Rob Green was sent off. He looked shaky and I doubt many of us were convinced. He then went on to be invaluable but I do think however, that we as fans over rate him and inflate his transfer value.

The issue here is that the transfer fee isn't as much as we'd like. The problem is is value realistically comes down to four things a) Length of contract still to run, b) What the interested club will pay, c) What the club will accept d) Happiness of players

Let's address these

a) Length of contract - he still has a while to run, so this isn't too much of a factor

b) What the buying club will pay: Smithies is a championship keeper, not a premiership keeper, so for the buying club there is an element of risk.There is no frame of reference. Fabianski went to West Ham for £7m but he is an experienced premiership keeper. Smithies may end up being better than Fabianski but likewise he may not and end up warming the bench. Goalkeepers also tend to have a lower value than outfielders.

c) What the selling club will accept: There is a lot we do not know going on behind the scenes. We have a new manager who has taken a look at his squad and knows there are gaps to fill. We know we need defenders and a centre forward. Now, its highly likely we need to sell as asset to bring in those players to fill the gaps. Ideally we would recoup the money from Washington but no one is prepared to buy him. Bidwell, Luongo, Freeman, Scowen and some of the kids are saleable assets. Ideally the club will look at which of these assets to sell that will have the least disruption. We have two good keepers in Ingram and Lumley, who have both looked somewhat shaky at times, but as said so did Smithies. Smithies may well have been identified as the asset that will provide us the money we need and the most replaceable from within the squad without having to spend money on the same position. We could hold out for more but lose the opportunity to sign the players we want.

d) Player happiness - I am sure Alex Smithies is an ambitious guy. He's 28 and wants to play premiership level football. He probably wants to play for his country. He will need to play at the highest level to be considered and backs himself to replace the current Cardiff keeper to do so. He's probably looked at peers like Pope, Pickford and Heaton and wants some of that. Being honest, we know he will not achieve his ambitions at QPR, and may have to move to do that. QPR then have to make a decision, Rather than an unhappy player, then is it the right thing to do for all parties to sanction the move.

As a championship club, we will always be susceptible to bids for our players if they are good enough. Players are ambitious and want to play for bigger clubs at the highest level. For years, we were full of players in the squad that no one wanted. It shows the progress we are making as a club that our players are being identified as targets and we are able to generate money for them to reinvest in the squad. We want players who want to be here and if not, then cash in and use that money to bring in players who do. Likewise, we have to be somewhat realistic that players will come to QPR and use the club as a stepping stone. We as fans are loyal and one club men. Footballers are not. QPR existed before Alex Smithies, and it will continue to exist after. It's the nature of the transfer beast I'm afraid - We're just very out of practice at it.

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by DBHoops » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:57 pm

westlondonlalala wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:01 pm
Coudnt we have got there winger in as part of the deal, short stocky fella Junior something..?

On a more serious note they have some big talent that couldn’t get a game last season surely we can do a deal in part x plus cash.

Lee Tomlin
Omar Bogle
Danny Ward

Being of real interest.
Said the same about Danny Ward yesterday. We need a striker. Similarly Bogle would be a very good option

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:24 pm

DBHoops wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:56 pm
Alex Smithies has been great for us but does everyone remember his first game? When he came on after Rob Green was sent off. He looked shaky and I doubt many of us were convinced. He then went on to be invaluable but I do think however, that we as fans over rate him and inflate his transfer value.

The issue here is that the transfer fee isn't as much as we'd like. The problem is is value realistically comes down to four things a) Length of contract still to run, b) What the interested club will pay, c) What the club will accept d) Happiness of players

Let's address these

a) Length of contract - he still has a while to run, so this isn't too much of a factor

b) What the buying club will pay: Smithies is a championship keeper, not a premiership keeper, so for the buying club there is an element of risk.There is no frame of reference. Fabianski went to West Ham for £7m but he is an experienced premiership keeper. Smithies may end up being better than Fabianski but likewise he may not and end up warming the bench. Goalkeepers also tend to have a lower value than outfielders.

c) What the selling club will accept: There is a lot we do not know going on behind the scenes. We have a new manager who has taken a look at his squad and knows there are gaps to fill. We know we need defenders and a centre forward. Now, its highly likely we need to sell as asset to bring in those players to fill the gaps. Ideally we would recoup the money from Washington but no one is prepared to buy him. Bidwell, Luongo, Freeman, Scowen and some of the kids are saleable assets. Ideally the club will look at which of these assets to sell that will have the least disruption. We have two good keepers in Ingram and Lumley, who have both looked somewhat shaky at times, but as said so did Smithies. Smithies may well have been identified as the asset that will provide us the money we need and the most replaceable from within the squad without having to spend money on the same position. We could hold out for more but lose the opportunity to sign the players we want.

d) Player happiness - I am sure Alex Smithies is an ambitious guy. He's 28 and wants to play premiership level football. He probably wants to play for his country. He will need to play at the highest level to be considered and backs himself to replace the current Cardiff keeper to do so. He's probably looked at peers like Pope, Pickford and Heaton and wants some of that. Being honest, we know he will not achieve his ambitions at QPR, and may have to move to do that. QPR then have to make a decision, Rather than an unhappy player, then is it the right thing to do for all parties to sanction the move.

As a championship club, we will always be susceptible to bids for our players if they are good enough. Players are ambitious and want to play for bigger clubs at the highest level. For years, we were full of players in the squad that no one wanted. It shows the progress we are making as a club that our players are being identified as targets and we are able to generate money for them to reinvest in the squad. We want players who want to be here and if not, then cash in and use that money to bring in players who do. Likewise, we have to be somewhat realistic that players will come to QPR and use the club as a stepping stone. We as fans are loyal and one club men. Footballers are not. QPR existed before Alex Smithies, and it will continue to exist after. It's the nature of the transfer beast I'm afraid - We're just very out of practice at it.
I find your long analysis contentious at best, and shakier than Tokyo in much else.

1. Smithies' contract is till 2020, so that should significantly ratchet up any selling price. It's not like with Charlie Austin, when it was about/allowed to run down, and he can go in practice for much less than his market value. Really quite simple to understand.

2. You make it sound like Cardiff are doing us a favour by taking him off our hands. It isn't even mainly a matter of whatever they offer - it's what we decide we'll accept, as you yourself go on to discuss. £3m, or even £4m, is daylight robbery, whichever way you cut the cake. I'd say, if that's the genuine price, it's abject mis-management.

3. If you think Smithies is over-rated, you must be blind. The guy has literally saved us, again and again, at least 10-15 points a season. And if you think our inexperienced reserve keepers are adequate replacements, you need your head examining.

4. Smithies has repeatedly indicated he was happy at QPR, and there is no reason why he couldn't potentially play in the Premiership with QPR - if players like him stay at the club. Hence, it is reasonable to infer that this has all come about between the clubs involved. I don't think the club need supporters with inferiority complexes like yours about what, being 'honest', we can and can't achieve. We've had two promotions in the last seven years! Try looking up a little, and you might see some stars.

In sum, you sound like you're reading from a Hoos/Ferdinand prepared script, which you've swallowed hook, line and sinker. And, as for that squad reinvestment you put your faith in, where is it? I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:35 pm

https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/al ... extension/

Just to correct you on (d). Or, I suppose, Smithies was telling a whole pack of lies at the time, and, when he said he was committed to the club and its development, what he actually meant was he wanted to leave and play at a higher level.

Alternatively, and here's a risky idea: Hoos, Ferdinand and the board just overwrite history in their own way to make a mockery of the club and the fans by flogging player assets at below their value when it suits them, and weakening the squad in the process.
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by Esox Lucius » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:48 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:35 pm
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/al ... extension/

Just to correct you on (d). Or, I suppose, Smithies was telling a whole pack of lies at the time, and, when he said he was committed to the club and its development, what he actually meant was he wanted to leave and play at a higher level.

Alternatively, and here's a risky idea: Hoos, Ferdinand and the board just overwrite history in their own way to make a mockery of the club and the fans by flogging player assets at below their value when it suits them, and weakening the squad in the process.
Keep banging that drum sunshine, I am sure there is one like minded individual listening out for it. Just for shits and grins, what do you hope to achieve with your diatribes?
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by Crabsandwich » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:20 pm

Yep, looking forward to his first interview for the Cardiff website where he says he's gutted to have to join them as he was really enjoying his time at QPR.

Honestly, I thought the tarts on Love Island were the only sort of people who took everything footballers say at face value.

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by UxbridgeR » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:47 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:35 pm
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/al ... extension/

Just to correct you on (d). Or, I suppose, Smithies was telling a whole pack of lies at the time, and, when he said he was committed to the club and its development, what he actually meant was he wanted to leave and play at a higher level.

Alternatively, and here's a risky idea: Hoos, Ferdinand and the board just overwrite history in their own way to make a mockery of the club and the fans by flogging player assets at below their value when it suits them, and weakening the squad in the process.
Are you for real ?

What you would you expect a player to say on the official club club website when they've just signed a new contract ? "Cheers, lads, thanks for the raise, this'll do until something better comes along" ?

Your hatred of Hoos, Ferdinand et al is truly off the scale. Seek help. Or a more relaxing hobby.
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by UxbridgeR » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:09 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:24 pm
We've had two promotions in the last seven years! Try looking up a little, and you might see some stars.

In sum, you sound like you're reading from a Hoos/Ferdinand prepared script, which you've swallowed hook, line and sinker. And, as for that squad reinvestment you put your faith in, where is it? I'm not holding my breath.
It seems to have escaped your notice that those promotions were achieved at a time when we were throwing money around left, right and centre.
The owners are evidently not prepared to do that anymore.

It really is you that needs to wake the pribbling idle-headed giglet up.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:49 pm

If this is the flow I'm being invited to go with by one or two here, I'm only glad I'm not a dead fish!

But, sorry, I must have some brain cells missing - let me try to do better! All of Smithies' words from signing his new contract to the present about being happy at QPR are not worth beans, because all of football is just a crock of lies. It's ever so kind of Cardiff to take him off our hands for probably half his market value. We fans should be grateful to stave off relegation to League One, which we really belong. And Hoos and Les are doing wonderfully well to tell us we should be delighted to be a selling club when anyone comes calling with a few quid, you can't compete with a 20,000 capacity ground, and Barnsley are our true role models, rather than Fulham, Palace, Bournemouth, Huddersfield or even Brentford.

Jim Gregory really must be turning in his grave right now, if he could read some of the garbage here.

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by UxbridgeR » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:29 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:49 pm
If this is the flow I'm being invited to go with by one or two here, I'm only glad I'm not a dead fish!

But, sorry, I must have some brain cells missing - let me try to do better! All of Smithies' words from signing his new contract to the present about being happy at QPR are not worth beans, because all of football is just a crock of lies.
I'll ask again, what would you expect a player having just signed a new contract and speaking on the club's official website,to say ?

Is it remotely conceivable that he was happy at the time, but 14 months on, the chance to play in the PL next season rather than at some remote future date seems more appealing ? What a scoundrel.

If only he'd considered what Jesus / Jim Gregory would do.
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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:41 pm

Smithies has been consistently saying he was happy to stay at QPR, and told the Kilburn Times last year: 'I love playing for QPR and want to stay here for many years to come'. And I recall similar statements coming out of his camp last season, and never a single indication he wanted to leave. So the burden of argumentative proof is not on me: why would he perform a sudden volte-face if not for machinations behind the scenes?

http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/sport/foo ... -1-4855401

I think what's most likely is that, as has been reported in fact, the clubs agreed a fee, put it to him that he was welcome to leave - in fact they'd be grateful if he could - and so he's understandably slinging his hook, with an upgrade in status and salary the likely sweeteners. I just think it's sad, and if I'm the only one feeling hoodwinked, so be it.

I will lay a £50 bet now with anyone that we will concede more goals next season than last, unless we sign an adequate replacement (which I'm 99% certain we won't). He must have prevented, what, 20-25 sure goals over the last couple of years that most other keepers would have failed to.

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by DBHoops » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:02 pm

stainrod's elbow wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:24 pm
DBHoops wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:56 pm
Alex Smithies has been great for us but does everyone remember his first game? When he came on after Rob Green was sent off. He looked shaky and I doubt many of us were convinced. He then went on to be invaluable but I do think however, that we as fans over rate him and inflate his transfer value.

The issue here is that the transfer fee isn't as much as we'd like. The problem is is value realistically comes down to four things a) Length of contract still to run, b) What the interested club will pay, c) What the club will accept d) Happiness of players

Let's address these

a) Length of contract - he still has a while to run, so this isn't too much of a factor

b) What the buying club will pay: Smithies is a championship keeper, not a premiership keeper, so for the buying club there is an element of risk.There is no frame of reference. Fabianski went to West Ham for £7m but he is an experienced premiership keeper. Smithies may end up being better than Fabianski but likewise he may not and end up warming the bench. Goalkeepers also tend to have a lower value than outfielders.

c) What the selling club will accept: There is a lot we do not know going on behind the scenes. We have a new manager who has taken a look at his squad and knows there are gaps to fill. We know we need defenders and a centre forward. Now, its highly likely we need to sell as asset to bring in those players to fill the gaps. Ideally we would recoup the money from Washington but no one is prepared to buy him. Bidwell, Luongo, Freeman, Scowen and some of the kids are saleable assets. Ideally the club will look at which of these assets to sell that will have the least disruption. We have two good keepers in Ingram and Lumley, who have both looked somewhat shaky at times, but as said so did Smithies. Smithies may well have been identified as the asset that will provide us the money we need and the most replaceable from within the squad without having to spend money on the same position. We could hold out for more but lose the opportunity to sign the players we want.

d) Player happiness - I am sure Alex Smithies is an ambitious guy. He's 28 and wants to play premiership level football. He probably wants to play for his country. He will need to play at the highest level to be considered and backs himself to replace the current Cardiff keeper to do so. He's probably looked at peers like Pope, Pickford and Heaton and wants some of that. Being honest, we know he will not achieve his ambitions at QPR, and may have to move to do that. QPR then have to make a decision, Rather than an unhappy player, then is it the right thing to do for all parties to sanction the move.

As a championship club, we will always be susceptible to bids for our players if they are good enough. Players are ambitious and want to play for bigger clubs at the highest level. For years, we were full of players in the squad that no one wanted. It shows the progress we are making as a club that our players are being identified as targets and we are able to generate money for them to reinvest in the squad. We want players who want to be here and if not, then cash in and use that money to bring in players who do. Likewise, we have to be somewhat realistic that players will come to QPR and use the club as a stepping stone. We as fans are loyal and one club men. Footballers are not. QPR existed before Alex Smithies, and it will continue to exist after. It's the nature of the transfer beast I'm afraid - We're just very out of practice at it.
I find your long analysis contentious at best, and shakier than Tokyo in much else.

1. Smithies' contract is till 2020, so that should significantly ratchet up any selling price. It's not like with Charlie Austin, when it was about/allowed to run down, and he can go in practice for much less than his market value. Really quite simple to understand.

2. You make it sound like Cardiff are doing us a favour by taking him off our hands. It isn't even mainly a matter of whatever they offer - it's what we decide we'll accept, as you yourself go on to discuss. £3m, or even £4m, is daylight robbery, whichever way you cut the cake. I'd say, if that's the genuine price, it's abject mis-management.

3. If you think Smithies is over-rated, you must be blind. The guy has literally saved us, again and again, at least 10-15 points a season. And if you think our inexperienced reserve keepers are adequate replacements, you need your head examining.

4. Smithies has repeatedly indicated he was happy at QPR, and there is no reason why he couldn't potentially play in the Premiership with QPR - if players like him stay at the club. Hence, it is reasonable to infer that this has all come about between the clubs involved. I don't think the club need supporters with inferiority complexes like yours about what, being 'honest', we can and can't achieve. We've had two promotions in the last seven years! Try looking up a little, and you might see some stars.

In sum, you sound like you're reading from a Hoos/Ferdinand prepared script, which you've swallowed hook, line and sinker. And, as for that squad reinvestment you put your faith in, where is it? I'm not holding my breath.
Hello my friend,

I find your response contentious at best and shakier than Tokyo in much else, so i will respond in kind taking the same tone towards you with which you have responded to me. So it's quite simple to understand

1. I made the point it doesn't affect anything. Quite simple to understand

2. In what way have I done that. I am saying a club makes an offer based on what they value a player at. The market value is what they will pay and what a club will accept. Who are you to say what a players market value is? Quite simple to understand

3. Go back to the top and read the first paragraph. I am talking about over valuing him from a transfer fee perspective. What do you think he's worth? 10m? 15m? His value to the club has been invaluable as I have said. Nor have i said that either are as good as him now. What's to say that Ingram or Lumley in time could be with first team experience? Smithies was not great when he first broke in the team or does your selective memory only stretch to proving your points? I am saying that the club need to bring in players that are not goalkeepers and we have three on the books. That is quite simple to understand

4. What a player says in the press at a given point in time can change, I do not have an inferiority complex. I am merely stating potential reasons why. I suggest you stop with your attitude of slagging fans, staff members because they don't share your opinions. Do you think footballers are one club men? That they don't want to play at a higher level? because they said they are happy once upon a time. What if Cardiff want to pay him £25,000 a week more than he's getting. Would you stay? Hopefully, this is quite simple to understand

In sum, stop putting words in my mouth. How am I reading from a Hoos/Ferdinand script? You clearly have an issue with them and anyone who doesn't share your opinions. As for the squad reinvestment, give them a fricking chance. They haven't sold him or recieved the money yet.

If you want a discussion, fine, but you can stop with the patronising b*llshit you are aiming at me. I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: Smithies off to Cardiff

Post by stainrod's elbow » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:17 pm

Whatever, really. Your idea of 'discussion' mainly seems to involve ignoring valid counter-arguments/objections (e.g. you don't seem to realise that transfer fees ARE related to the length left on players' contracts in practice, or did you really miss a big part of the discussions of the mismanagement of Austin's departure) or just repeating yourself. I've got better things to do with my time than trying to reason with you.

Where did you say in the above that Smithies was 'invaluable' to the club - in which case, presumably, there's no price that could or should prise him away from us! At least try to use the language intelligently! You basically said that he got off to a shaky start for a game or two - so what! - and then talked up the reserve keepers, who we've hardly seen. Which I find risible, probably because it is.

For the record, if Hoos, Les and Tony do manage to steer the club in palpable year-on-year improvement on the field through player recruitment, high quality coaching and collective ambition, I will be happy to say I was wrong. But they have a great deal to do to win me over, and I doubt their abilities and, in certain respects, their intentions. Others have been far more hostile to the club's leadership than me, both here and on social media. But everyone loves a scapegoat, right?

Sometimes I feel this Message Board is more like a cult - say the 'wrong' thing, and people round on you like you're offending some kind of sacred cow. QPR is my club as much as anyone else's. It's laughable, really, and embarrassing for those involved.
Last edited by stainrod's elbow on Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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