WATCH THIS

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Satch
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Re: WATCH THIS

Post by Satch » Mon May 14, 2018 4:01 am

beaglebum wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:54 pm
What I don't understand is why they have sacked him? They gave him a 3 yr contract and from what I gather it was to build a bit of stability and cement our place in the championship - exactly what he has achieved with another year to go. There has been no mention from the board about promotion its all been about building from the youth upwards. So in theory he has over-achieved as they obviously thought it would take another season by giving him the contract they did and it really doesn't make sense changing the goalposts now.

I can understand it if they want a manager to build stability, then a new manager to build on what the previous one has done and get promoted and then another manager to cement our place in the premier and then another to challenge (for example Holloway - Warnock - Allardyce - Mourinho) and advising each manager exactly what his task is. But the fact Holloway has achieved his 'target early' surely means he deserves to also take the team to the next level or complete his contract and not be sacked? Arseholes!!!!
It's a good question and one we will probably never know the answer to. What we don't know is what the expectation and remit were. It might be that there was a feeling he didn't achieve as much as he could -even if the goal wasn't a promotion. Maybe, whilst he was recruited to provide stability the club felt on reflection he wasn't doing that or wasn't capable of bringing slow and steady progress. On the other hand, maybe he had achieved everything that was expected of him in record time but unfortunately there was a feeling he couldn't take us any further.

I certainly think it's hard for any of us to say he achieved his target as we don't know what that was. It's a shame, whilst i'll always feel there was a little of convenience to Holloway's passion he clearly cares about the club more than most managers would. That doesn't necessarily make him the best man for the job. Objectively speaking, if we were discussing the merits of his tenure and it had been someone with no previous connection to the club, i don't believe there would be the outrage there has been.
old pauline wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:48 pm
The Forest game was a blip when the Forest youngsters were on fire and if the Board cannot let the Brentford result go when Ollie tried one or two experiments then more fool them.
That's a lot more generous than was ever afforded JFH or Ramsey. Was it also a blip when Forest beat us 4-0 at their place, whilst we weren't getting beaten by those margins, it wasn't a blip - it was part of a long run of poor results, seemingly due to the adherence to an unsuitable system that other managers had sussed?

I know you want Holloway to leave LR with 3 points next season - but if his aptitude towards away fixtures is like it was for us, we won't have to worry much. I really am struggling with this Holloway before the club attitude. Again, the upset doesn't seem to be isolated to a concern that this isn't a good decision strategically in helping this football club progress - which certainly might be the case.

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Esox Lucius
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Re: WATCH THIS

Post by Esox Lucius » Mon May 14, 2018 6:55 am

beaglebum wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:54 pm
What I don't understand is why they have sacked him? They gave him a 3 yr contract and from what I gather it was to build a bit of stability and cement our place in the championship - exactly what he has achieved with another year to go. There has been no mention from the board about promotion its all been about building from the youth upwards. So in theory he has over-achieved as they obviously thought it would take another season by giving him the contract they did and it really doesn't make sense changing the goalposts now.

I can understand it if they want a manager to build stability, then a new manager to build on what the previous one has done and get promoted and then another manager to cement our place in the premier and then another to challenge (for example Holloway - Warnock - Allardyce - Mourinho) and advising each manager exactly what his task is. But the fact Holloway has achieved his 'target early' surely means he deserves to also take the team to the next level or complete his contract and not be sacked? Arseholes!!!!
Maybe that is the reason? Objectives reached ahead of schedule, time to move to the next phase? It makes sense if the tools that he brought to the party are not the tools that are needed for whatever the next phase entails? Could be it's the nurturing of the young talent to realise the greatest profits, maybe to have a tactician who can bring in some of the extra points away from home we lost out on, which isn't to take away from those games at Villa & Fulham which were glorious, and move us up the final table a bit more. It is all going to be a gamble but the first part of the gamble seems to have paid off so maybe the people running the club do know what they are doing at last. My biggest concern would be losing the team spirit and work ethic that IH brought to QPR but, from things you read and hear, SMC was well liked and improved our game despite some of the shenanigans in the dressing room at the time. I don't believe that SMC (if it is to be him) will be allowed to bring in too many people or players so there will always be the consideration that it "wasn't his team" if it all goes nipples north but I am sure that whoever gets the job that this will be the case and they will know this before accepting the position. All we can do for another season is to wait and see I suppose.
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Re: WATCH THIS

Post by UxbridgeR » Mon May 14, 2018 9:13 am

beaglebum wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:54 pm
What I don't understand is why they have sacked him? They gave him a 3 yr contract and from what I gather it was to build a bit of stability and cement our place in the championship - exactly what he has achieved with another year to go. There has been no mention from the board about promotion its all been about building from the youth upwards. So in theory he has over-achieved as they obviously thought it would take another season by giving him the contract they did and it really doesn't make sense changing the goalposts now.

I can understand it if they want a manager to build stability, then a new manager to build on what the previous one has done and get promoted and then another manager to cement our place in the premier and then another to challenge (for example Holloway - Warnock - Allardyce - Mourinho) and advising each manager exactly what his task is. But the fact Holloway has achieved his 'target early' surely means he deserves to also take the team to the next level or complete his contract and not be sacked? Arseholes!!!!
I don't think you can read too much into the length of the contract he was given. Ramsey got a three year contract and was sacked within 6 months.

I can't really see how he's overachieved either. We were 17th when he took over, and 18 months on, have finished 16th. I don't think anyone was really expecting promotion, but perhaps they were hoping for a little more upward momentum than that. He's had to deal with a steadily reducing budget, but so did the two previous incumbents, and they got shorter shrift than Holloway.

I feel a bit sorry for him, as I don't think he had been poor enough to merit losing his job, but on the other hand, I didn't hold out any great hope of really pushing on under him. If they were going to make a change, it's the right time to do it, in the sense that the new man has a full pre-season to work with the players and stamp his mark on the team.
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Re: WATCH THIS

Post by DBHoops » Mon May 14, 2018 3:47 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:13 am
beaglebum wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:54 pm
What I don't understand is why they have sacked him? They gave him a 3 yr contract and from what I gather it was to build a bit of stability and cement our place in the championship - exactly what he has achieved with another year to go. There has been no mention from the board about promotion its all been about building from the youth upwards. So in theory he has over-achieved as they obviously thought it would take another season by giving him the contract they did and it really doesn't make sense changing the goalposts now.

I can understand it if they want a manager to build stability, then a new manager to build on what the previous one has done and get promoted and then another manager to cement our place in the premier and then another to challenge (for example Holloway - Warnock - Allardyce - Mourinho) and advising each manager exactly what his task is. But the fact Holloway has achieved his 'target early' surely means he deserves to also take the team to the next level or complete his contract and not be sacked? Arseholes!!!!
I don't think you can read too much into the length of the contract he was given. Ramsey got a three year contract and was sacked within 6 months.

I can't really see how he's overachieved either. We were 17th when he took over, and 18 months on, have finished 16th. I don't think anyone was really expecting promotion, but perhaps they were hoping for a little more upward momentum than that. He's had to deal with a steadily reducing budget, but so did the two previous incumbents, and they got shorter shrift than Holloway.

I feel a bit sorry for him, as I don't think he had been poor enough to merit losing his job, but on the other hand, I didn't hold out any great hope of really pushing on under him. If they were going to make a change, it's the right time to do it, in the sense that the new man has a full pre-season to work with the players and stamp his mark on the team.
I will preface what I am about to say with this. I am a huge Ian Holloway fan. I believe he has been treated unfairly and feel he had earned the right to continue the job. Yes, the away form was not great, (that's not exclusively a Holloway problem) but I loved the fact that he gets QPR, we had a manager who cares as much as we did about our club. I also loved the fact that he provided something as QPR fans we have not had in quite some time and that was stability. Olly was and will always be a Ranger. Not to mention that the squad was becoming one of the most exciting we have had in a long time. Ironically, this may well have been his downfall.

But he has gone and we need to move on, as much as we may disagree with that decision.

Now trying to think objectively, I have a couple of things rattling around my head.

Firstly, are the board running before they can walk around the transitional period they talk about. Next year is the first without parachute payments, so I imagine that any new manager coming in will need to work with what they have or sell to buy. With that in mind, would it not have made more sense to maintain the status quo in the short term i.e next season? Clint Hill on the QPR podcast spoke about dropping standards being an issue, if the bar is set to low that stunts progress but at the same time, what are realistic expectations when you consider the context of where we are now both in terms of squad talent and financial position mapped against the other teams that we will face next season?

The current first team squad has so many young players coming through. So what impact will this decision to move away from Holloway have on the players that he has brought through to the first team? What relationship did they have with Olly? Will the decision to move away from Holloway arrest their development, if at all? For me, this is the reason why the next managerial appointment is vital and I hope the club are doing their due diligence and looking at who is available that fits the job description to the letter rather than just bringing in someone because they think they need a change. The focus must be on developing the talent we have to the max.

The next man up will need to work with what they have and maintain and enhance the development of the young talent we have at the club. I wonder whether the decision to move from Holloway to a Steve McLaren (potentially) is to do with the coaching and development of this group, as we know that McLaren is a highly rated coach but not a hugely successful manager (bearing in mind we do already have a highly rated one of these at the club already in Chris Ramsey). Is the thinking that a more established coach will help this group reach their potential quicker, and therefore become more valuable assets to the club in terms of performance and sell-on potential?

So thinking about it and putting it into general employment terms, has Ian Holloway been made redundant rather than actually sacked? Will the new man coming in be a direct replacement (club manager) or rather will come in to do a different role (player development), Has the club seen enough potential in its youth system to change its business model entirely to mean that the number one form of revenue will be player sales rather than matchday revenue and feels that Holloway may not be the man to make that happen. If the decision to remove Holloway is a sensible business decision based on a longer term more pragmatic view of running the club then I am all for it. or is it the usual managerial merry go round and we'll be looking for a new manager after a 16th place finish again?

I guess time will tell...

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Esox Lucius
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Re: WATCH THIS

Post by Esox Lucius » Mon May 14, 2018 3:54 pm

Your thinking is pretty much the same as mine wrt the above.
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