Ian Holloway

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Ian Holloway

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:53 pm

We are now approaching 14 months into Ian Holloway's second spell as QPR manager. The thing I am finding hard to shake is the feeling that in many ways he has picked up where he left off. That is in terms of results and performances.

I think he is a very limited football manager, and that is the crux of the problem. His managerial team does not compensate for his shortcomings, so the overall result is; 'not quite good enough'.

Let me say right off I don't think we should be sacking him, that would cause more instability, and hasn't worked for us in the past. He undoubtedly needs help, and if he isn't prepared to listen to others then he will paint himself into a corner. There is no sign of higher management addressing this obvious failing, and if they don't I think it is inevitable sooner or later he (IH) will maker his position untenable. I really don't think he could survive another run of six defeats in a row.

Steve MacLaren and Gerry Francis are two men who could help. The question is whether either would be prepared to come. The other option would be Paul Clement. He has largely failed as a manager, but is widely acknowledged to be a first class coach. To my eye we need a first class coach, because Ian Holloway is not. Every time I watch our team, I come away with the feeling they could have done better. I don't agree with the view the players are not good enough. I feel the team is not playing as well as it could - the whole is not equal to the sum of it's parts. Pretty much Ian Holloway sends out the same group of players in largely the same formation, playing a variation on the same tactics. It is not working! On the odd occasions we win (7 wins in 26 league games - a ratio of almost 1 win in 4) everyone gets excited, and the cracks are papered over.

One of Ian Holloway's biggest failings is he doesn't take risks. To be successful as a football manager you have to sometimes take risks. We see the same players turning out every week. Very occasionally one of the youngsters will make the bench, then probably disappear again. If they are really lucky they may get a game from the bench, or an occasional start, though they will probably not make it through to 90 minutes. Other players are completely frozen out - Borysuik, JET, Manning, Goss (before going to Glasgow), Petrasso, Shodipo ... if everything is working on the pitch, you can afford to stay loyal to your winning team. If it isn't, and there are no funds to bring in a ready made improvement, then it is complete nonsense to only use 3/4 of the squad. Alex Ferguson was an occasional risk taker which lifted him from being a very good football manager to a great one. I don't expect to see any surprises in a Ian Holloway team selection, because he just doesn't do that.

Mark Hughes learnt yesterday that sometimes you put your faith in your players and they let you down. There was an element of that for Ian Holloway yesterday too, though the way the team was set up certainly didn't help.

As a player Ian Holloway was a hard working midfielder. He put in the leg work for an aging Ray Wilkins, and it mostly worked. He wasn't a flair player, and his teams generally lack that spark. Sadly we don't have a Marsh, Bowles, Wegerle or Taraabt. Consequently our play is flat and predictable. Nigel Clough will know exactly what to expect next Saturday, and will be working in training to nullify and beat us. We did have Chery, but he couldn't get out the door fast enough once Ian Holloway arrived and the Chinese came calling. Therein lies another part of the problem. A year ago both Chery and Poulter left, and their goals have not been replaced. Smith is 'great' but he needs a certain type of service, and will need four chances to score one. In my view he is more likely to score with a ball delivered from a wide position, than from one pushed upfield. In short route one isn't the answer. The use of proper wingers putting quality balls into the box might be a different matter.

I like many, am feeling very frustrated. Change is needed, but I can't see where that is coming from. Ian Holloway doesn't seem to be learning from games, and making changes to address obvious issues, and DOF doesn't appear to be applying any pressure either.
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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by westlondonlalala » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:06 pm

Can I just pick you up on the whole Paul Clement world class coach, please correct me if I’m wrong but he worked at PSG Chelsea & Real Madrid.

With respect to Paul Clement.. But Roy Chubby Brown could work as a coach at those clubs, billion pound operations with the worlds best players it’s a little different to working with Matt Smith & James Pirch.

Clement has trotted off with his tail between his legs twice now in the English game one for off field antics & one for putting Swansea on the brink.

His stock is falling & I’m not convinced he would solve our coaching situation, as I mentioned Smith & Pirch are a little different to Ronaldo & Ramos.

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by Andy_N19 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Excellent sum-up Zenith. Paul Clement coming in would be a big plus,
coz there's no coaching at all going on @ Loftus Road.
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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by westlondonlalala » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:11 pm

Also Clement & Ollie would both have to be singing off the same page.

Clement has worked with the worlds best in cultured environments, Ollie plays Cousins & Bidwell as wingbacks.

To say lost in translation would be an understatement.

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by 222gers » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:26 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:53 pm
We are now approaching 14 months into Ian Holloway's second spell as QPR manager. The thing I am finding hard to shake is the feeling that in many ways he has picked up where he left off. That is in terms of results and performances.

I think he is a very limited football manager, and that is the crux of the problem. His managerial team does not compensate for his shortcomings, so the overall result is; 'not quite good enough'.

Let me say right off I don't think we should be sacking him, that would cause more instability, and hasn't worked for us in the past. He undoubtedly needs help, and if he isn't prepared to listen to others then he will paint himself into a corner. There is no sign of higher management addressing this obvious failing, and if they don't I think it is inevitable sooner or later he (IH) will maker his position untenable. I really don't think he could survive another run of six defeats in a row.

Steve MacLaren and Gerry Francis are two men who could help. The question is whether either would be prepared to come. The other option would be Paul Clement. He has largely failed as a manager, but is widely acknowledged to be a first class coach. To my eye we need a first class coach, because Ian Holloway is not. Every time I watch our team, I come away with the feeling they could have done better. I don't agree with the view the players are not good enough. I feel the team is not playing as well as it could - the whole is not equal to the sum of it's parts. Pretty much Ian Holloway sends out the same group of players in largely the same formation, playing a variation on the same tactics. It is not working! On the odd occasions we win (7 wins in 26 league games - a ratio of almost 1 win in 4) everyone gets excited, and the cracks are papered over.

One of Ian Holloway's biggest failings is he doesn't take risks. To be successful as a football manager you have to sometimes take risks. We see the same players turning out every week. Very occasionally one of the youngsters will make the bench, then probably disappear again. If they are really lucky they may get a game from the bench, or an occasional start, though they will probably not make it through to 90 minutes. Other players are completely frozen out - Borysuik, JET, Manning, Goss (before going to Glasgow), Petrasso, Shodipo ... if everything is working on the pitch, you can afford to stay loyal to your winning team. If it isn't, and there are no funds to bring in a ready made improvement, then it is complete nonsense to only use 3/4 of the squad. Alex Ferguson was an occasional risk taker which lifted him from being a very good football manager to a great one. I don't expect to see any surprises in a Ian Holloway team selection, because he just doesn't do that.

Mark Hughes learnt yesterday that sometimes you put your faith in your players and they let you down. There was an element of that for Ian Holloway yesterday too, though the way the team was set up certainly didn't help.

As a player Ian Holloway was a hard working midfielder. He put in the leg work for an aging Ray Wilkins, and it mostly worked. He wasn't a flair player, and his teams generally lack that spark. Sadly we don't have a Marsh, Bowles, Wegerle or Taraabt. Consequently our play is flat and predictable. Nigel Clough will know exactly what to expect next Saturday, and will be working in training to nullify and beat us. We did have Chery, but he couldn't get out the door fast enough once Ian Holloway arrived and the Chinese came calling. Therein lies another part of the problem. A year ago both Chery and Poulter left, and their goals have not been replaced. Smith is 'great' but he needs a certain type of service, and will need four chances to score one. In my view he is more likely to score with a ball delivered from a wide position, than from one pushed upfield. In short route one isn't the answer. The use of proper wingers putting quality balls into the box might be a different matter.

I like many, am feeling very frustrated. Change is needed, but I can't see where that is coming from. Ian Holloway doesn't seem to be learning from games, and making changes to address obvious issues, and DOF doesn't appear to be applying any pressure either.
I'm in broad agreement with the above apart from JET being frozen out. This bloke is a disgrace and has no right to be considered alongside players that by and large work really hard for the club. I agree we sink or swim with Holloway, I just wish he'd realise that his tactics if you can call them that are flawed. Another coach? Well, it may work if he is prepared to listen.

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by kernowhoop » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 pm

First, from Zenith's comments:
Smith is 'great' but he needs a certain type of service, and will need four chances to score one. In my view he is more likely to score with a ball delivered from a wide position, than from one pushed upfield. In short route one isn't the answer. The use of proper wingers putting quality balls into the box might be a different matter.

Absolutely right. Hoofing the ball to Smith is no good. It is just as likely to bounce off him. He is not Zamora, Helgusson or Gallen (who was, often of necessity, good at tidying up crap). Smith needs four chances to get one goal? Maybe, but, so do lots of strikers. So, give him plenty of chances and - for what it is worth - my personal view is that he is less likely to score if he is static. Could we have him running in for the crosses? With even a little bit of movement, the defenders will have far less chance of dealing with him.

Now, on the suggestion of bringing in a coach. It has worked with a more hands-off manager (McClaren with Redknapp), but, if we recruited one of the coaches suggested, what, exactly would there be left for Ollie to do? What would his role be and how would it be compatible with that of the coach?
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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:00 pm

westlondonlalala wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:06 pm
Can I just pick you up on the whole Paul Clement world class coach, please correct me if I’m wrong but he worked at PSG Chelsea & Real Madrid.

With respect to Paul Clement.. But Roy Chubby Brown could work as a coach at those clubs, billion pound operations with the worlds best players it’s a little different to working with Matt Smith & James Pirch.

Clement has trotted off with his tail between his legs twice now in the English game one for off field antics & one for putting Swansea on the brink.

His stock is falling & I’m not convinced he would solve our coaching situation, as I mentioned Smith & Pirch are a little different to Ronaldo & Ramos.
I didn't say he was World class, I said: "he is widely acknowledged to be a first class coach." You might not think so, but within football circles he is. Coaching and management are two completely different things.
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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by westlondonlalala » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:52 pm

I haven’t got a clue if he can coach or not I just noticed he followed Ancelotti around like a puppy rocking up at the biggest clubs in the world just like Morinho’s mob follow him about.

He hasn’t exactly covered himself in glory since taking the hot seat himself & working under Ollie I would see as a clash of intentions.

But what do I know Zenith, what do I know or even more to the point what have Les Hoos & Uncle Tony got up there sleeve shifty

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by White Duck » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:55 pm

Andy_N19 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:07 pm
Excellent sum-up Zenith. Paul Clement coming in would be a big plus,
coz there's no coaching at all going on @ Loftus Road.
No coaching at all eh? That's very disappointing to read....IF it's true of course. :roll:
Lex Talionis........

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by Greyhound » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:01 pm

Clement wasn't interested in the manager's job before, so highly unlikely he would come back as a coach. I also think we could do with whatever the contemporary version of Kenny Jackett is, although we have improved considerably this season - bar the ability to actually put the ball in the net. I think we are one striker away from being a very decent team, so perhaps we just need a bit of patience.

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by T-Block » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:33 pm

One result turns you eh zenith .Come on be a supporter.Writing a a few paragraphs saying he isn't a good manager is poor .Think where he started from and how far the team has changed.All good progress.Don't be a c un t and ruin it.All we need are better goal-scorers-basically any goalscorer.

The issue is the players not the management team

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by QPR_John » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:12 pm

T-Block wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:33 pm
One result turns you eh zenith .Come on be a supporter.Writing a a few paragraphs saying he isn't a good manager is poor .Think where he started from and how far the team has changed.All good progress.Don't be a c un t and ruin it.All we need are better goal-scorers-basically any goalscorer.

The issue is the players not the management team
But surely it should the job of the management team to improve the players or make way for somebody who can. If these are the players we are left with and nothing can be changed what is the need for a manager other than picking the team every week

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by Rbee » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:36 pm

You think back to the most successful combination of Peter Taylor and Brian Clough, Taylor the coach and Clough the motivator. Without each other they enjoyed far less success.

I remember writing on here when Warnock got us promoted that the best thing he could do now was add a coach with plenty of Premier League experience. Of course he didn't.

It makes sense to me to grab as much help as you can, just look at the catalogue of errors leading to the MK Dons goal. But this is down to Ollie and his willingness to employ another coach or two. Two things. Firstly you have to accept that football managers are arrogant, without that arrogance they wouldn't get the job in the first place so therefore help and advice aren't always easily accepted. Secondly you bring in a Jackett or Clement type character then they will automatically have half an eye on Ollie's job and everyone would know that which could unsettle things at the club. Francis would be the exception here.

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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by White Duck » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:20 pm

There is absolutely no way IMO that McLaren, Clement or any other alleged 'supercoach' would be prepared to work for the money we would pay them or indeed see any benefit for them to do so.

Of course the expert at bringing in extra coaches when needed was Harry Redknapp but the club was on a different financial footing then, and old Harry wouldn't have been bothered to have potential rivals for the manager's position at the club.

A lot of people seem to have an amazing knowledge of how good or bad the coaching at the club currently is: most of it must be pure guesswork unless some of these people are in attendance at most coaching sessions?
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Re: Ian Holloway

Post by Andy_N19 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:25 pm

White Duck wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:55 pm
Andy_N19 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:07 pm
Excellent sum-up Zenith. Paul Clement coming in would be a big plus,
coz there's no coaching at all going on @ Loftus Road.
No coaching at all eh? That's very disappointing to read....IF it's true of course. :roll:
I'm thinking of tactical ineptness, paucity of passing, lack of technical ability with most of the players.
Was highlighted by most who were there yesterday and what I've seen repeatedly this season.
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