FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

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FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by ZENITH R » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:34 pm

Just watching Brizzle City V Villa.

The commentator has said teams relegated from the Premier league this year will receive £50,000,000 in the first year in parachute payments. Presumably more to follow in the following seasons.

How is that FFP?
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by Don Gibbons » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Not fair at all

Also some Championship clubs have got bigger stadiums than us, hence more money than us

Also some Championship clubs have got better players than us

Also some Championship clubs have got a better manager than us

This English Football League is obviously rigged eboohoo

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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by WA Hoop » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:51 pm

I understood from where you were coming Zenith and agree wholeheartedly.
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by ZENITH R » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:14 pm

Don Gibbons wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:46 pm
Not fair at all

Also some Championship clubs have got bigger stadiums than us, hence more money than us

Also some Championship clubs have got better players than us

Also some Championship clubs have got a better manager than us

This English Football League is obviously rigged eboohoo

.
Not necessarily aimed at us Don. How do teams like Burton or any of the promoted clubs compete with that? It's not about whinging. It's about the integrity of the competition.

If you have a bigger stadium, fine, that's one thing, but to hand 3 clubs £50,000,000 is something completely different.

And actually yeah! It is rigged, it's impossible to put any other spin on it.

Of course if the Chinese bought Burton and gave them say .... £50,000,000 Burton would be in breach of FFP. How the hell is that fair?
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by Satch » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 am

Should we hand back our parachute payments?

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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by ZENITH R » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:12 am

Satch wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 am
Should we hand back our parachute payments?
The whole concept is flawed, and we didn't get £50,000,000 in the first year. If we had, maybe we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in now. Then again ...

It seems to me, the big boys are looking after their own, and ensuring if one of the chosen ones (Newcastle and Sunderland for example) should slip from the top table they are given every assistance to get back there. While at the same time keeping the riff raff (the likes of Burton and Rotherham) as far away from the 'promised land' as possible.
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by QPR_John » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:30 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:12 am
Satch wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 am
Should we hand back our parachute payments?
The whole concept is flawed, and we didn't get £50,000,000 in the first year. If we had, maybe we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in now. Then again ...

It seems to me, the big boys are looking after their own, and ensuring if one of the chosen ones (Newcastle and Sunderland for example) should slip from the top table they are given every assistance to get back there. While at the same time keeping the riff raff (the likes of Burton and Rotherham) as far away from the 'promised land' as possible.
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by Satch » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:31 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:12 am
Satch wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 am
Should we hand back our parachute payments?
The whole concept is flawed, and we didn't get £50,000,000 in the first year. If we had, maybe we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in now. Then again ...

It seems to me, the big boys are looking after their own, and ensuring if one of the chosen ones (Newcastle and Sunderland for example) should slip from the top table they are given every assistance to get back there. While at the same time keeping the riff raff (the likes of Burton and Rotherham) as far away from the 'promised land' as possible.
So should we hand back our money or is your actual complaint, not the system, but that specifically, we didn't get as much and now it isn't too our benefit? It's a new TV deal, which has pushed up the prize money and also the cost of players / salaries. Parachute payments are there to insulate relegated teams from financial collapse, just like they have done for us. Without them, teams like Brighton, Huddersfield etc wouldn't be able to contemplate investing in the players they need to be competitive, with the risk of the liability of servicing their contracts on a Championship income.

We would have received more than previous relegated teams too, we're in a financial mess due to our own mistakes. Would i like us to have more, sure. But let's have some self-awareness and little less hypocrisy because we've been recipients of these payments and still are and i don't recall anyone complaining at the time.

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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by UxbridgeR » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:23 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:14 pm

Not necessarily aimed at us Don. How do teams like Burton or any of the promoted clubs compete with that? It's not about whinging. It's about the integrity of the competition.

If you have a bigger stadium, fine, that's one thing, but to hand 3 clubs £50,000,000 is something completely different.

And actually yeah! It is rigged, it's impossible to put any other spin on it.

Of course if the Chinese bought Burton and gave them say .... £50,000,000 Burton would be in breach of FFP. How the hell is that fair?
Well no, not necessarily. it would depend how they used the £50M. Anything they spend on infrastructure would not affect the FFP calculation. Also, the current rules allow clubs to lose up to £39M over 3 years, so if they were smart enough about it and balanced it with infrastructure spending, they could probably stay within the rules.
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by UxbridgeR » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:28 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:12 am
Satch wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 am
Should we hand back our parachute payments?
The whole concept is flawed, and we didn't get £50,000,000 in the first year. If we had, maybe we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in now. Then again ...

It seems to me, the big boys are looking after their own, and ensuring if one of the chosen ones (Newcastle and Sunderland for example) should slip from the top table they are given every assistance to get back there. While at the same time keeping the riff raff (the likes of Burton and Rotherham) as far away from the 'promised land' as possible.
As Satch says, it's £50M now because the TV money continues to go through the roof every few years. We got more than enough money at the time to have put the club on an even keel for years, but we f****d it up. Moaning about how unfair the whole thing is seems rather pitiful to me.

Also the idea that the parachute money is targeted at "big clubs" is nonsense. Had Bournemouth, Burnley and Swansea been relegated, they would have got exactly the same amount. They've earned the right to be there, just as we had the chance to do.
Last edited by UxbridgeR on Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by whittonhoop » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Essentially it's about income and how you spend your money. As income for a promoted team continues to accelerate, so does the "parachute" upon relegation.

A team in a lower division is under similar scrutiny, though they may gamble on getting to a bigger income stream.

What I find funny is that the FA (or whoever) is thinking they can fine clubs / owners in breach of it. Surely if I were a wealthy individual I could spend my money how I choose?

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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by ZENITH R » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:56 pm

Satch wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:31 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:12 am
Satch wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:30 am
Should we hand back our parachute payments?
The whole concept is flawed, and we didn't get £50,000,000 in the first year. If we had, maybe we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in now. Then again ...

It seems to me, the big boys are looking after their own, and ensuring if one of the chosen ones (Newcastle and Sunderland for example) should slip from the top table they are given every assistance to get back there. While at the same time keeping the riff raff (the likes of Burton and Rotherham) as far away from the 'promised land' as possible.
So should we hand back our money or is your actual complaint, not the system, but that specifically, we didn't get as much and now it isn't too our benefit? It's a new TV deal, which has pushed up the prize money and also the cost of players / salaries. Parachute payments are there to insulate relegated teams from financial collapse, just like they have done for us. Without them, teams like Brighton, Huddersfield etc wouldn't be able to contemplate investing in the players they need to be competitive, with the risk of the liability of servicing their contracts on a Championship income.

We would have received more than previous relegated teams too, we're in a financial mess due to our own mistakes. Would i like us to have more, sure. But let's have some self-awareness and little less hypocrisy because we've been recipients of these payments and still are and i don't recall anyone complaining at the time.
I didn't mention QPR in my original post, others made that connection and I responded.

I don't have any issue with QPR and how much money we did or didn't get. I just think the whole concept of parachute payments is flawed, and was flawed before QPR got a penny in parachute payments. Maybe we wouldn't have been as cavalier with the cash had we known that relegation would see us 'cut off'from any part of the premier league gravy train.

It was flawed when it was originally introduced, and it is incredibly flawed now.

Players contracts should reflect the division they are in (and the amount of cash available). Basically every players contract should have a relegation clause or clauses that say you'll earn less cash if the club is relegated. If that relegation is from Premier League to the Championship, it could be a significant drop. That is FFP and that is living in the real world!
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by Esox Lucius » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:52 am

FFP is clearly explained in this extract from an article regarding PSG's signing of Mbappe. It is all to do with the rich clubs getting richer and pribbling idle-headed giglet the rest of you.
"Kieran Maguire, a sport finance expert at the University of Liverpool, said he believes there are a number of ways in which PSG can balance the books to avoid a penalty.

These could include striking new deals with shirt manufacturers, improved commercial deals - possibly with Qatari companies paying premium sums - or part of the players' wages going through the books of another company.

"I'm fairly sure PSG will have employed lawyers and financial advisers to identify potential flaws, weaknesses and loopholes in FFP," Maguire says.

"There is nothing to stop Neymar and Mbappe agreeing to sign for 'only' £65,000 a week and simultaneously sign an ambassadorial role for a Qatari company for £300,000 or £400,000 a week," said Maguire.

"If this is the case only the £65,000 a week would go through PSG's accounts and FFP would be satisfied.
"
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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by Satch » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:02 am

Yep
It always was about pulling up the draw bridge. Our spending was obviously utterly ridiculous, but to remove a clubs ability to grow, even at a loss is absurd.

Some sort of sustainability test would be far more practical if protecting smaller clubs from going pop was the actual goal.

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Re: FFP .... I'm afraid someone is going to have to explain the concept to me.

Post by Esox Lucius » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:14 am

Satch wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:02 am
Yep
It always was about pulling up the draw bridge. Our spending was obviously utterly ridiculous, but to remove a clubs ability to grow, even at a loss is absurd.

Some sort of sustainability test would be far more practical if protecting smaller clubs from going pop was the actual goal.
The Qatar state funding is hardly a burden to their sustainability. It all comes back to the divisive question of whether it is fair for a club to be allowed to spend at the whim of it's owners or whether the intent of FFP should be rigorously enforced to disallow deals such as the above which clearly are in breach of the intent of FFP?
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