FFP Decision due this month

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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by Satch » Wed May 17, 2017 9:01 pm

Montag wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 8:45 pm
FFP is the reverse of what it says it is. Just like the Tories "Localism (Jokerism)" bill that was supposed to empower local authorities but in fact stripped them of more power. FFP has one aim - to prevent a small club being developed into a big club by a wealthy owner(s) and to maintain the status quo. I cannot see how in such a deregulated economy such as the UK that FFP would stand up in court.
Agreed, we know football is fundamentally broken, but the horse has bolted and the money isn't disappearing from the game anytime soon. Any notion that FFP was for the benefit of anyone other than large clubs is risible.

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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by ZENITH R » Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Satch wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 6:06 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 4:13 pm
The question is are the FL serious about their competition? The parachute payments make the Championship a very skewed affair - Rotherham and Blackburn who spent next to nothing were always going to struggle, while Burton will again face an uphill slog.

A near £60 million pound fine could be a death sentence to a club like ours. What happens too when Bournemouth and Leicester eventually get relegated (just a matter of time for both)? Similar sized (or even bigger) fines put them in a precarious position.

Do the FL really want to put clubs out of business?

If they are serious about financial fair play, the first thing to do is scrap the parachute payments. Then Institute a salary cap across all divisions and 95% of the problem is solved.

A sensible approach to the fit person regulations and a bond held by the FL when new owners take over will go a long way to solving the final 5% of the problem.
Disagree on Parachute payments. You remove those, you make the Premier league an even more closed shop.
Parachute payments allow clubs like Newcastle to return after one year off the real gravy train. Clubs like QPR who stuffed the whole financial thing up the wall, will struggle to return. Clubs like Rotherham, Burton Swindon, etc will either need to find a very rich owner prepared to break the rules or get very lucky - winning millions on the lottery level of luck.

Football in this country is a closed shop. The big boys get bigger the small guys struggle to survive with no hope of ever joining the top table.
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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by 222gers » Wed May 17, 2017 10:00 pm

When the first division clubs voted, in 19canteen or whenever it was, to create the Premier league, surely it must have been like turkeys voting for Xmas. I know we were in it plus Oldham and I think Luton. Not the sort of clubs the Prem really wanted.

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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by DAVEf » Thu May 18, 2017 12:42 am

There are clubs who currently consider themselves Premier League clubs who will continue to vote with the really big boys through ego and financial requirements/necessity but sooner or later I'd say it's a very fair bet that most will find their friends and comrades will become erstwhile ones if (when?) the few biggest bugger off to join a European super league in order to corner the money available in maybe a US style arrangement with no promotion/relegation or even following the County Cricket system with just two divisions and everybody, sooner or later, getting a go in the top division. And those qualifying are likely to be judged more on how much cash they can generate rather than location an/or history (hence the recent ground expansion-plans of clubs like Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and chels --- even maybe West ham if they could get lucky in putting a successful team together).

It probably wouldn't kill football ---- there would be the "blockbuster" matches attracting massive attention occasionally (like the really big film releases) while most fans would be watching domestic league football in far greater numbers (as people watch TV). And there's always the risk that people would get fed-up with the unreality of a superleague in the way I became bored with the NFL (yeah its half-decent sport but the way the system --- especially the draft --- works to make it "fair" --- financially fair to all the owners that is --- bores me in the same way professional wrestling (however good they are as athletes) bores me because it's not "real" sport but some kind of hybrid sportstertainment.

Maybe it's me but I'd rather watch two Sunday league teams kicking lumps out of each other in a park match (or pay to watch semi-pros do similar but with a little more skill and fitness in non-league footy).
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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by Satch » Thu May 18, 2017 1:41 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 pm
Satch wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 6:06 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 4:13 pm
The question is are the FL serious about their competition? The parachute payments make the Championship a very skewed affair - Rotherham and Blackburn who spent next to nothing were always going to struggle, while Burton will again face an uphill slog.

A near £60 million pound fine could be a death sentence to a club like ours. What happens too when Bournemouth and Leicester eventually get relegated (just a matter of time for both)? Similar sized (or even bigger) fines put them in a precarious position.

Do the FL really want to put clubs out of business?

If they are serious about financial fair play, the first thing to do is scrap the parachute payments. Then Institute a salary cap across all divisions and 95% of the problem is solved.

A sensible approach to the fit person regulations and a bond held by the FL when new owners take over will go a long way to solving the final 5% of the problem.
Disagree on Parachute payments. You remove those, you make the Premier league an even more closed shop.
Parachute payments allow clubs like Newcastle to return after one year off the real gravy train. Clubs like QPR who stuffed the whole financial thing up the wall, will struggle to return. Clubs like Rotherham, Burton Swindon, etc will either need to find a very rich owner prepared to break the rules or get very lucky - winning millions on the lottery level of luck.

Football in this country is a closed shop. The big boys get bigger the small guys struggle to survive with no hope of ever joining the top table.
That's our fault and we can't blame anyone else. We can't pretend we're hard done by, parachute payments have kept us afloat. It wasn't that long ago we were 'Newcastle'.

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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu May 18, 2017 8:33 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Football in this country is a closed shop. The big boys get bigger the small guys struggle to survive with no hope of ever joining the top table.
It depends what you mean by "the top table".

A quarter of the teams in this season's PL (Swansea, Hull, Watford, Burnley, Bournemouth) have average home gates of 20k or under (just 11k in Bournemouth's case). Stoke, West Brom, Leicester and Southampton are established but hardly massive PL clubs. I wouldn't describe any of them as struggling.

Brighton will be there for the first time next season, and Huddersfield may well join them.

Breaking into the top six and staying there is another thing altogether, but then that was the case well before FFP.

However Leicester proved it can be done, when the common concensus was that it would never happen again.

You could go back to the early 80s and the ending of shared gate money if you want to look for where the current imbalances really started. The fact is though that the majority of clubs involved have voted in the changes that got us here all the way along the line. That includes FFP as well.

As Satch says, we benefitted from the parachute money and continue to do so. We'd have been in serious trouble without it, so I wouldn't be too quick to wish it away.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by ZENITH R » Thu May 18, 2017 2:54 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 8:33 am
ZENITH R wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Football in this country is a closed shop. The big boys get bigger the small guys struggle to survive with no hope of ever joining the top table.
It depends what you mean by "the top table".

A quarter of the teams in this season's PL (Swansea, Hull, Watford, Burnley, Bournemouth) have average home gates of 20k or under (just 11k in Bournemouth's case). Stoke, West Brom, Leicester and Southampton are established but hardly massive PL clubs. I wouldn't describe any of them as struggling.

Brighton will be there for the first time next season, and Huddersfield may well join them.

Breaking into the top six and staying there is another thing altogether, but then that was the case well before FFP.

However Leicester proved it can be done, when the common concensus was that it would never happen again.

You could go back to the early 80s and the ending of shared gate money if you want to look for where the current imbalances really started. The fact is though that the majority of clubs involved have voted in the changes that got us here all the way along the line. That includes FFP as well.

As Satch says, we benefitted from the parachute money and continue to do so. We'd have been in serious trouble without it, so I wouldn't be too quick to wish it away.
Paying Joey Barton £70k a week and SWP £50k a week plus who knows what else did for us. All in a stadium with a capacity of less than 20,000 paying customers. A salary cap would have made us make more realistic choices on the salary front.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is optional.

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Re: FFP Decision due this month

Post by Satch » Thu May 18, 2017 4:55 pm

A salary cap would need to be Europe wide to work and large clubs would circumvent it in various ways. Also, lets not blame anyone other than ourselves for the mess we made of our spending.

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