Who To Keep & Who To Go...

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Satch
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by Satch » Wed May 10, 2017 7:57 pm

I think we'd be lucky to get more than 5m for Smithies. As far as buying clubs are concerned he's a Championship keeper. We paid about 4m for McCarthy from memory and he was highly rated.

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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by deadendjob » Wed May 10, 2017 8:18 pm

Satch wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 7:57 pm
I think we'd be lucky to get more than 5m for Smithies. As far as buying clubs are concerned he's a Championship keeper. We paid about 4m for McCarthy from memory and he was highly rated.
5m with a on-sell clause would be good business imo. It'd help us reinvest in the team at a time we're strapped for cash - as much as I'd hate Smithies to go.
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by Satch » Wed May 10, 2017 8:39 pm

deadendjob wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 8:18 pm
Satch wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 7:57 pm
I think we'd be lucky to get more than 5m for Smithies. As far as buying clubs are concerned he's a Championship keeper. We paid about 4m for McCarthy from memory and he was highly rated.
5m with a on-sell clause would be good business imo. It'd help us reinvest in the team at a time we're strapped for cash - as much as I'd hate Smithies to go.
Agreed. Let's hope Ingram is as good as people think.

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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by DAVEf » Wed May 10, 2017 9:58 pm

How many Championship keepers have been sold for £5M?

Or £4M?

Or £3M or £2M?
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by Satch » Thu May 11, 2017 5:41 am

DAVEf wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 9:58 pm
How many Championship keepers have been sold for £5M?

Or £4M?

Or £3M or £2M?
Not many, but then how many are as good or his age?

As above IIRC (and i might not) McCarthy was around 4m and was probably similarly rated.

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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by old pauline » Thu May 11, 2017 7:31 am

I think Smithies is similar to, and as good as Tom Heaton and he's done well in the Prem so I'd say Smithies could play there too. Given his age I'd value him at 4M. If he did go I think there'd be several potential replacements. I'd be more worried about losing Grant Hall.
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by DAVEf » Thu May 11, 2017 12:08 pm

It's not about how we rate Smithies. Looking at most Prem clubs they all seem to have good keepers and good back-ups so anyone buying Smithies would probably be buying a back-up (and they don't command top prices).

And McCarthy seemed to have other attributes (like always being happy sitting on the bench but apparently keeping his fitness up to match-levels --- which appeals to managers).
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by QPR_John » Thu May 11, 2017 12:48 pm

DAVEf wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 12:08 pm
It's not about how we rate Smithies. Looking at most Prem clubs they all seem to have good keepers and good back-ups so anyone buying Smithies would probably be buying a back-up (and they don't command top prices).

And McCarthy seemed to have other attributes (like always being happy sitting on the bench but apparently keeping his fitness up to match-levels --- which appeals to managers).
Is he not signed up until 2020 so we can play hard ball so it is all about how we rate him. The suggestion seems to be if a Premier League team come in for him we have to sell.

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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by DAVEf » Thu May 11, 2017 4:28 pm

QPR_John wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 12:48 pm
DAVEf wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 12:08 pm
It's not about how we rate Smithies. Looking at most Prem clubs they all seem to have good keepers and good back-ups so anyone buying Smithies would probably be buying a back-up (and they don't command top prices).

And McCarthy seemed to have other attributes (like always being happy sitting on the bench but apparently keeping his fitness up to match-levels --- which appeals to managers).
Is he not signed up until 2020 so we can play hard ball so it is all about how we rate him. The suggestion seems to be if a Premier League team come in for him we have to sell.
If a Prem team comes in more often than not (due to ambition, ego and, not least, wages) a targeted player will want to go. And that makes things diffcult.

There is also a suggestion that if anyone shows any interest in one of our players we should cash in in case he gets hit by a bus or whatever. That is a strategy employed by many clubs over the years and almost always leads to relegation and highly reduced attendances (or the other way around).
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by T-Block » Fri May 12, 2017 12:37 pm

From what I hear Ingram impresses both at Rangers and at England set-ups.Bright boy ,learns quickly and understands what he is being told very quickly.He also knows how effective concentrated practice is.Like all young keepers he needs confidence,but has a good personality to talk to his defence .Really big lad,well beefed up -almost too much.
If Smithies went,which I think he will, I think Ingram will do well.

For Rangers if we have a good replacement and someone offers a good price we should sell.

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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by Esox Lucius » Fri May 12, 2017 1:14 pm

And Joe Lumley was getting rave reviews at Bristol. We are blessed with decent GK's currently. The U18 keeper, Marcin Brzozowski , is highly rated too and has played at International level for Poland. Hopefully he will recover fully from his hand injury.
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by DAVEf » Fri May 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 1:14 pm
And Joe Lumley was getting rave reviews at Bristol. We are blessed with decent GK's currently. The U18 keeper, Marcin Brzozowski , is highly rated too and has played at International level for Poland. Hopefully he will recover fully from his hand injury.
Maybe not for the last few games.


The thing with keepers is, there are so many eastern Europeans out there, 6' 5", 6' 6" and brought up playing very popular handling games like Handball and Basketball that can be bought at cheaper prices, the Championship is not where most Prem clubs would look (especially as most Prem managers and agents are foreign).

Over the last few years it's occurred to me more that strikers don't have "levels" per se but more the gap in goalkeeping standards (certainly between Prem and Championship and Championship and lower) is far greater than we consider. Cloughie always spent what he had on the best keeper available and that seemed to pay off but still, a keeper might make 3 saves and save 3 goals but a striker will miss 3 chances and then score one goal and the headlines will be about him being a "match-winner".

As cliches go, maybe "The hardest thing in football is scoring goals" could be replaced with "The most important thing in football is stopping the opposition scoring?"
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by Satch » Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 pm

DAVEf wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 5:17 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 1:14 pm
And Joe Lumley was getting rave reviews at Bristol. We are blessed with decent GK's currently. The U18 keeper, Marcin Brzozowski , is highly rated too and has played at International level for Poland. Hopefully he will recover fully from his hand injury.
Maybe not for the last few games.
Really? On their forum, they're desperate to sign him or have him back on loan.

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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by DAVEf » Sun May 14, 2017 11:20 pm

Satch wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 pm
DAVEf wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 5:17 pm
Esox Lucius wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 1:14 pm
And Joe Lumley was getting rave reviews at Bristol. We are blessed with decent GK's currently. The U18 keeper, Marcin Brzozowski , is highly rated too and has played at International level for Poland. Hopefully he will recover fully from his hand injury.
Maybe not for the last few games.
Really? On their forum, they're desperate to sign him or have him back on loan.
I've mentioned elsewhere the differing keeping standards between leagues and though he seems to have had a good season against League One opponents, Rovers conceded more goals than any other team in the top 16 and only one of the four relegated clubs, conceded more. Maybe Rovers attacked (much) more, maybe they had really poor defenders (or poorly organised defenders) and/or maybe Lumley had many more chances to shine and fans focussed on what he did well rather than any negatives. For sure he seemed to go off the boil a bit at the end of the season with some real dodgy moments.

Actually, I'm not trying to knock him. He's young and promising and can (hopefully) continue to improve but to even consider selling Smithies and involve ideas of chucking Lumley into regular Championship football into the discussions just yet seems somewhat ---- nuts?
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Re: Who To Keep & Who To Go...

Post by Satch » Mon May 15, 2017 2:43 pm

DAVEf wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 11:20 pm
Satch wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 pm
DAVEf wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 5:17 pm


Maybe not for the last few games.
Really? On their forum, they're desperate to sign him or have him back on loan.
I've mentioned elsewhere the differing keeping standards between leagues and though he seems to have had a good season against League One opponents, Rovers conceded more goals than any other team in the top 16 and only one of the four relegated clubs, conceded more. Maybe Rovers attacked (much) more, maybe they had really poor defenders (or poorly organised defenders) and/or maybe Lumley had many more chances to shine and fans focussed on what he did well rather than any negatives. For sure he seemed to go off the boil a bit at the end of the season with some real dodgy moments.

Actually, I'm not trying to knock him. He's young and promising and can (hopefully) continue to improve but to even consider selling Smithies and involve ideas of chucking Lumley into regular Championship football into the discussions just yet seems somewhat ---- nuts?
Out of interest, does the goals conceded stat look the same just for the period where Lumley was at the club?

I'm not suggesting we throw him in, but he might well need to be number 2. Smithies is one of our few saleable assets, i'm worried about not having him in goal, but it's a reality we will have to face sooner rather than later imo.

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