Warnocks team vs Holloways

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beaglebum
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Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by beaglebum » Sun May 07, 2017 4:31 pm

I've had a quick look at the last game we played in season 09-10, the season when Warnock took over and kept us up. We finished in 13th on 57pts but flirted with relegation a few weeks until he got us winning. Comparing this to the team that started the following season and won the league, there were only 3 players who started the same games and there were 6 new signings (incl Adel).

Warnocks team last game May 2010 (0-1 vs Newcastle)
Cerny, Ramage, Gorkss, Tosic
Leigertwood, Buzsaky, Cook, Faurlin, Ephraim
Simpson, Priskin

Warnocks team first game Aug 2010 (4-0 vs Barnsley)
Kenny, Orr, Hill, Hall, Gorkss
Derry Taarabt, Faurlin, Ephraim
Helguson, Mackie

Holloways best 11 ???
Smithies, Furlong. Onouha, Hall, Robinson
Wzsolek, Manning, Luongo, Freeman
Smith, Sylla

On paper, Holloway's squad is arguably better than that which Warnock inherited in 2010, yet Warnock worked wonders in pre-season to get us up as champions and 1st place all season, by bringing in average players but who gave their all for the team. Adel was the difference in 2010-11 which we are lacking now, but if everything I'm hearing about Penrice's scouting ability is to be believed, then he could unearth another treasure for us.

So my point is, if Warnock can do it with the squad he inherited, then there's no reason why Holloway can't too. He only needs a couple of the right additions so does not need the whole overhaul that Warnock needed to do (IMO of course).

Keep the faith and enjoy the summer!

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by White Duck » Sun May 07, 2017 4:46 pm

Interesting that only 3 of the players in the last game of the season Warnock took over were in the team at the beginning of the next championship winning one.....

I think that IF Olly stays he needs to get rid of a lot of the current squad and get in a few replacements in key positions, starting with a strong captain to build the team around.
Lex Talionis........

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by westlondonlalala » Sun May 07, 2017 4:56 pm

It's very simple!

Warnock = genius.

Every other gaffer we've had in the last 10yrs = average or below.

Warnock would get us playing that is a fact, look where Cardiff sat in the table when he took over the bluebirds, look where they finished up.

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by BristolCity » Sun May 07, 2017 5:06 pm

When Gary Penrice was the striker coach and scout at Bristol Rovers he worked absolute wonders; every year he found another £1m striker (that was a lot of money in those days!) to replace the one they'd just sold. I couldn't believe it when they gave him the push to save a few quid. False economy or what?

At one point the top striker in all four leagues was a Penrice find.

From memory he found and massively improved: Bobby Zamora, Jason Roberts, Marcus Stewart, Jamie Cureton and I'm sure others that I forget (them not being my team).

So I'm sure he'll do it again at QPR.

Enjoy the summer, I'm very pleasantly surprised that we're both starting next season in the Championship as that has looked highly unlikely for both of us through a lot of this season.
QPR are my second team - not many Bristol City fans can say that!

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by 222gers » Sun May 07, 2017 7:34 pm

BristolCity wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 5:06 pm
When Gary Penrice was the striker coach and scout at Bristol Rovers he worked absolute wonders; every year he found another £1m striker (that was a lot of money in those days!) to replace the one they'd just sold. I couldn't believe it when they gave him the push to save a few quid. False economy or what?

At one point the top striker in all four leagues was a Penrice find.

From memory he found and massively improved: Bobby Zamora, Jason Roberts, Marcus Stewart, Jamie Cureton and I'm sure others that I forget (them not being my team).

So I'm sure he'll do it again at QPR.

Enjoy the summer, I'm very pleasantly surprised that we're both starting next season in the Championship as that has looked highly unlikely for both of us through a lot of this season.
Thanks for that Bristol, although I think you've more reason to be optimistic than us !

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by old pauline » Sun May 07, 2017 7:38 pm

Its an interesting analogy but I think the 2017/18 Championship will be a more demanding mistress than she was in 2010/11 and there will be more 2010/11 Cardiffs and Swanseas for us to deal with if we are going to get anywhere near the play-offs.
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by Albert Steptoe » Sun May 07, 2017 7:50 pm

Yes, it's a repetitive drum to beat but the difference between what Warnock has done (again) at Cardiff since taking over just goes to show what an appalling mistake it was to get rid of him, not once but twice. A proper Championship manager.

Ferdinand gets credit from fans simply because he used to play for us and he's got a few deadbeats off the payroll, yet we are very lucky that we're not in League One. He's got the most important decisions wrong, such as appointing his mates as manager, rather than actually doing some research and finding somebody decent, perhaps from abroad.

To get rid of Warnock last season and appoint the clowns we've had since, says everything about the inept management of the club. But yeah, who cares about losing 6-0 and ten times at home this season, because we get to clap some old players on the pitch at half-time.
Last edited by Albert Steptoe on Sun May 07, 2017 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by ZENITH R » Sun May 07, 2017 7:52 pm

Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 7:50 pm
Yes, it's a repetitive drum to beat but the difference between what Warnock has done (again) at Cardiff since taking over just goes to show what an appalling mistake it was to get rid of him not once but twice. A proper Championship manager.

Ferdinand gets credit from fans simply because he used to play for us and he's got a few deadbeats off the payroll, yet we are very lucky that we're not in League One. He's got the most important decisions wrong, such as appointing his mates as manager, rather than actually doing some research and finding somebody decent, perhaps from abroad.

To get rid of Warnock last season and appoint the clowns we've had since, says everything about the inept management of the club. But yeah, who cares about losing 6-0 and ten times at home this season, because we get to clap some old players on the pitch at half-time.

How many more times .... WARNOCK DID NOT WANT THE JOB!
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by UxbridgeR » Sun May 07, 2017 8:18 pm

ZENITH R wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 7:52 pm
Albert Steptoe wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 7:50 pm
Yes, it's a repetitive drum to beat but the difference between what Warnock has done (again) at Cardiff since taking over just goes to show what an appalling mistake it was to get rid of him not once but twice. A proper Championship manager.

Ferdinand gets credit from fans simply because he used to play for us and he's got a few deadbeats off the payroll, yet we are very lucky that we're not in League One. He's got the most important decisions wrong, such as appointing his mates as manager, rather than actually doing some research and finding somebody decent, perhaps from abroad.

To get rid of Warnock last season and appoint the clowns we've had since, says everything about the inept management of the club. But yeah, who cares about losing 6-0 and ten times at home this season, because we get to clap some old players on the pitch at half-time.

How many more times .... WARNOCK DID NOT WANT THE JOB!
That's another repetitive drum, Zenith, but one Albert never hears the beat of.
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by DAVEf » Sun May 07, 2017 11:26 pm

beaglebum wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 4:31 pm
I've had a quick look at the last game we played in season 09-10, the season when Warnock took over and kept us up. We finished in 13th on 57pts but flirted with relegation a few weeks until he got us winning. Comparing this to the team that started the following season and won the league, there were only 3 players who started the same games and there were 6 new signings (incl Adel).

Warnocks team last game May 2010 (0-1 vs Newcastle)
Cerny, Ramage, Gorkss, Tosic
Leigertwood, Buzsaky, Cook, Faurlin, Ephraim
Simpson, Priskin

Warnocks team first game Aug 2010 (4-0 vs Barnsley)
Kenny, Orr, Hill, Hall, Gorkss
Derry Taarabt, Faurlin, Ephraim
Helguson, Mackie

Holloways best 11 ???
Smithies, Furlong. Onouha, Hall, Robinson
Wzsolek, Manning, Luongo, Freeman
Smith, Sylla

On paper, Holloway's squad is arguably better than that which Warnock inherited in 2010, yet Warnock worked wonders in pre-season to get us up as champions and 1st place all season, by bringing in average players but who gave their all for the team. Adel was the difference in 2010-11 which we are lacking now, but if everything I'm hearing about Penrice's scouting ability is to be believed, then he could unearth another treasure for us.

So my point is, if Warnock can do it with the squad he inherited, then there's no reason why Holloway can't too. He only needs a couple of the right additions so does not need the whole overhaul that Warnock needed to do (IMO of course).

Keep the faith and enjoy the summer!
Warnock had Gorksss (who was a genuinely decent Championship centre-back) and he had Faulin.

And Adel. Without him we wouldn't have even made the play-offs --- of that I'm convinced. But it also (along with other examples in recent times) shows that all you need is an efficient team that has been well organised and if you add in just one or two players who are genuinely better than Championship level they will provide the class (and points) that will allow confidence io grow and performances that improve above the the basic level of what would usually be expected from the other players.
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by Rbee » Mon May 08, 2017 2:19 am

Warnock's August team is far better than what we have now in my opinion. Plenty of experience and leaders.

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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by kernowhoop » Mon May 08, 2017 6:21 am

Rbee wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 2:19 am
Warnock's August team is far better than what we have now in my opinion. Plenty of experience and leaders.
You are probably right, especially about 'experience and leaders'.
Nevertheless, I recall quite a few of those players regularly attracting grumbles on this board.
That must tell us something.
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by ZENITH R » Mon May 08, 2017 10:15 am

DAVEf wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 11:26 pm
beaglebum wrote:
Sun May 07, 2017 4:31 pm
I've had a quick look at the last game we played in season 09-10, the season when Warnock took over and kept us up. We finished in 13th on 57pts but flirted with relegation a few weeks until he got us winning. Comparing this to the team that started the following season and won the league, there were only 3 players who started the same games and there were 6 new signings (incl Adel).

Warnocks team last game May 2010 (0-1 vs Newcastle)
Cerny, Ramage, Gorkss, Tosic
Leigertwood, Buzsaky, Cook, Faurlin, Ephraim
Simpson, Priskin

Warnocks team first game Aug 2010 (4-0 vs Barnsley)
Kenny, Orr, Hill, Hall, Gorkss
Derry Taarabt, Faurlin, Ephraim
Helguson, Mackie

Holloways best 11 ???
Smithies, Furlong. Onouha, Hall, Robinson
Wzsolek, Manning, Luongo, Freeman
Smith, Sylla

On paper, Holloway's squad is arguably better than that which Warnock inherited in 2010, yet Warnock worked wonders in pre-season to get us up as champions and 1st place all season, by bringing in average players but who gave their all for the team. Adel was the difference in 2010-11 which we are lacking now, but if everything I'm hearing about Penrice's scouting ability is to be believed, then he could unearth another treasure for us.

So my point is, if Warnock can do it with the squad he inherited, then there's no reason why Holloway can't too. He only needs a couple of the right additions so does not need the whole overhaul that Warnock needed to do (IMO of course).

Keep the faith and enjoy the summer!
Warnock had Gorksss (who was a genuinely decent Championship centre-back) and he had Faulin.

And Adel. Without him we wouldn't have even made the play-offs --- of that I'm convinced. But it also (along with other examples in recent times) shows that all you need is an efficient team that has been well organised and if you add in just one or two players who are genuinely better than Championship level they will provide the class (and points) that will allow confidence io grow and performances that improve above the the basic level of what would usually be expected from the other players.
I would add ... and play to the strengths of the individual players and the team.

That is something we haven't seen in the last 8 games - no width, chopping and changing the team unnecessarily. I would say we witnessed a period of experimentation, but it would be hard to see what that experiment was. Deciding to 'coast' to the end of the season showed managerial inexperience and naivety (though of course IH is neither inexperienced or naive). So, what was it? Arrogance, plain stupidity? Because we came within a whisker of getting relegated. Clearly IH learnt nothing from his time at Leicester City.
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by Montag » Mon May 08, 2017 10:37 am

Warnock did not want the job? Does anyone really believe that? Yeah, he was much happier doing the drive up to Rotherham from Cornwall every week.
Duff Dof to blame.
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Re: Warnocks team vs Holloways

Post by westlondonlalala » Mon May 08, 2017 11:01 am

Course he wanted the job, the passion in his eyes at Reading away.

Defo more to it imo. Didn't make sense at the time & still doesn't.

Obviously sum1 was already lined up.

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