The truth at last

This is a general message forum for all football and other general posts. Images, banter and topic wandering allowed. ALL TICKET RELATED POSTS IN DEDICATED THREAD IN HERE ONLY. All ticket related posts elsewhere will be deleted.

Moderators: nige101uk, willesdenr, qprdotorgadmin, ZENITH R, Virginia_R

User avatar
Montag
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 4594
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Montag » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:57 pm

Any second referendum will fracture our already fragile political system and we'll end up with Nigel Farage as PM. The Liberals need to take the word 'Democrats' out of their name. They're not.
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

User avatar
Andy_N19
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 3658
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Andy_N19 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:50 pm

Montag wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:22 pm
Perhaps if we'd been told the truth in 1975 then we wouldn't be in this situation.
You mean the broken down, "sick man of Europe" scenario at the time is what you hanker for?
Staff Benda Bilili

User avatar
Montag
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 4594
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Montag » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:19 pm

Andy_N19 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:50 pm
Montag wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:22 pm
Perhaps if we'd been told the truth in 1975 then we wouldn't be in this situation.
You mean the broken down, "sick man of Europe" scenario at the time is what you hanker for?
That was bollocks. Food was cheaper for a start. There were industrial problems but we had full employment, people weren't forced to work Sundays in shops plus a large manufacturing sector, substantial armed forces, a functioning police and judiciary, and there was no underclass. No crime and drug epidemics. We also had a team down the Bush that could spank anyone in town. We also had bands that could play. Were you there? With the exception of medical science improving, it was better. Just my opinion. Based on experience and facts.
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

User avatar
Giorgio
dotorgsponsor
dotorgsponsor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The truth at last

Post by Giorgio » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:44 am

Montag wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:19 pm
With the exception of medical science improving, it was better. Just my opinion. Based on experience and facts.
...well, life was surely simpler, but many things have improved since then, life styles have changed with the new technologies but anyway, leaving the EU is not taking that world back.

User avatar
Andy_N19
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 3658
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Andy_N19 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:07 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:44 am
Montag wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:19 pm
With the exception of medical science improving, it was better. Just my opinion. Based on experience and facts.
...well, life was surely simpler, but many things have improved since then
...such as better food, not having to deal with the rampant racism that there was, less sexism, better broader education, better travel broadening people's minds, addressing the then war in Ulster, not sending pig ignorant brickies to Germany; not having to deal with a 3 day week or winters of discontent. Dingy soot blighted buildings pockmarking London, closed shops in most professions, shall I go on?
Staff Benda Bilili

User avatar
sparkypark
Level 3 dot.orger
Level 3 dot.orger
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:19 am
Location: Shoreham by Sea

Re: The truth at last

Post by sparkypark » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:05 pm

Andy_N19 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:07 pm
Giorgio wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:44 am
Montag wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:19 pm
With the exception of medical science improving, it was better. Just my opinion. Based on experience and facts.
...well, life was surely simpler, but many things have improved since then
...such as better food, not having to deal with the rampant racism that there was, less sexism, better broader education, better travel broadening people's minds, addressing the then war in Ulster, not sending pig ignorant brickies to Germany; not having to deal with a 3 day week or winters of discontent. Dingy soot blighted buildings pockmarking London, closed shops in most professions, shall I go on?
Do go on just to mention that “no crime” seems to miss the Yorkshire Ripper who started his horrors in 1975, and people killed in IRA bombs at a Hilton Hotel and in Oxford Street in London.

Although, I do have to agree that in 1975 Britain made things, it had a wide range of large manufacturers. But, it was Maggie Thatcher, not some foreign bureaucrat, who decided to shaft industry and the trade union members who did the work, in favour of the City, the bankers and the speculators.
Between my finger and my thumb the squat pen rests. I'll dig with it.

User avatar
Andy_N19
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 3658
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Andy_N19 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:46 am

sparkypark wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:05 pm
Andy_N19 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:07 pm
Giorgio wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:44 am


...well, life was surely simpler, but many things have improved since then
...such as better food, not having to deal with the rampant racism that there was, less sexism, better broader education, better travel broadening people's minds, addressing the then war in Ulster, not sending pig ignorant brickies to Germany; not having to deal with a 3 day week or winters of discontent. Dingy soot blighted buildings pockmarking London, closed shops in most professions, shall I go on?
Do go on just to mention that “no crime” seems to miss the Yorkshire Ripper who started his horrors in 1975, and people killed in IRA bombs at a Hilton Hotel and in Oxford Street in London.

Although, I do have to agree that in 1975 Britain made things, it had a wide range of large manufacturers. But, it was Maggie Thatcher, not some foreign bureaucrat, who decided to shaft industry and the trade union members who did the work, in favour of the City, the bankers and the speculators.
Also child and other sexual abuses which were completely unreported was probably rife at the time going back certainly before the 2nd World War.
Romantic notions of the past is a fools game.
Staff Benda Bilili

User avatar
Montag
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 4594
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Montag » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 pm

I didn't say it was perfect - just better. We have been lied to consistently for decades. The two pronged unicorn of the EU and neo-liberalism is the problem. We must get out now while there is still time.
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

User avatar
Esox Lucius
dot.org vip
dot.org vip
Posts: 21108
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: Banbury, Oxon.

Re: The truth at last

Post by Esox Lucius » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:09 am

Montag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 pm
I didn't say it was perfect - just better. We have been lied to consistently for decades. The two pronged unicorn of the EU and neo-liberalism is the problem. We must get out now while there is still time.
Details?
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

User avatar
Giorgio
dotorgsponsor
dotorgsponsor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The truth at last

Post by Giorgio » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:27 am

Montag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 pm
I didn't say it was perfect - just better. We have been lied to consistently for decades. The two pronged unicorn of the EU and neo-liberalism is the problem. We must get out now while there is still time.
...luckily Farage, Boris and his gang came to reveal the "true truth" and are leading the country to the new Eldorado....now that
you can spend £ 350M a week instead of sending them to the EU.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

User avatar
Andy_N19
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 3658
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: The truth at last

Post by Andy_N19 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:33 am

Montag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 pm
just better.
In what way were the 1970's "better"?
Staff Benda Bilili

QPR_John
Level 5 dot.orger
Level 5 dot.orger
Posts: 6439
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:35 pm
Location: Reading

Re: The truth at last

Post by QPR_John » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:14 pm

Andy_N19 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:33 am
Montag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 pm
just better.
In what way were the 1970's "better"?
At the end of the day we did not vote for the EU in 1975. No government since has had a mandate to intergrate this country into the political union that the EU is now. Now I am not arguing one way or the other simply saying the result of the referendum in 2016 was to get out of an organisation we never voted to join. The point is we were lied to in 1975 as I cannot believe the plans for a political union were not at an advanced stage then, they had to be.

User avatar
Esox Lucius
dot.org vip
dot.org vip
Posts: 21108
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: Banbury, Oxon.

Re: The truth at last

Post by Esox Lucius » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:19 pm

QPR_John wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:14 pm
Andy_N19 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:33 am
Montag wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 pm
just better.
In what way were the 1970's "better"?
At the end of the day we did not vote for the EU in 1975. No government since has had a mandate to intergrate this country into the political union that the EU is now. Now I am not arguing one way or the other simply saying the result of the referendum in 2016 was to get out of an organisation we never voted to join. The point is we were lied to in 1975 as I cannot believe the plans for a political union were not at an advanced stage then, they had to be.
So, your opinion then, not fact.
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

QPR_John
Level 5 dot.orger
Level 5 dot.orger
Posts: 6439
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:35 pm
Location: Reading

Re: The truth at last

Post by QPR_John » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:31 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:19 pm
QPR_John wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:14 pm
Andy_N19 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:33 am


In what way were the 1970's "better"?
At the end of the day we did not vote for the EU in 1975. No government since has had a mandate to intergrate this country into the political union that the EU is now. Now I am not arguing one way or the other simply saying the result of the referendum in 2016 was to get out of an organisation we never voted to join. The point is we were lied to in 1975 as I cannot believe the plans for a political union were not at an advanced stage then, they had to be.
So, your opinion then, not fact.
So you are saying the EU evolved without any planning. Surely nobody can deny the EU is in every way different from the organisation we voted to remain in in 1975

User avatar
Giorgio
dotorgsponsor
dotorgsponsor
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The truth at last

Post by Giorgio » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:02 pm

....well, enough that you are happy with the decision you have taken, cos it does not really sound wise to me.....
stepping out a strong group - in terms of business and economics - not really an option I would pick...and just to have an idea....
the day before the vote the rate of exchange between Euro and £ was 0.72 ... 1 € = 0.72 £ ... now it is 1 € = 0.92 £ so down 20% and not much better versus the other major currencies and they forecast it will be even worse ....and with all the mess of the last 2 years the UK has lost most of its credibility and trust in the eyes of the foreign investors....that is even worse than the loss on the markets.

Post Reply