Goodbye NHS?

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sparkypark
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Re: Goodbye NHS?

Post by sparkypark » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:37 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:33 am
sparkypark wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:07 am
Seven years into a Conservative government and the NHS is in financial difficulty. Who would have guessed! It happens every time the Conservatives are in government, but it still comes as a surprise to some people.

Quite simply, our government spends less on health services than the French or the Germans, and, although our system is recognised as being among the most efficient, without money it can't provide the service most of its workers want to give us, and we want to get.
Before you point fingers perhaps you should read those articles I posted again. It is Labour who championed the PFI opportunities and admitted to putting in place poor contracts that are bleeding the NHS dry. But who cares, lets put more money in even if most of it will go to PFI firms. I wouldn't trust Labour with by Bells Whisky bottle of 20p pieces.
I didn't refer to your articles because they are not particularly interesting. As it happens, I don't agree with PFI as a model, but, unfortunately, it fitted with Mr Blair's view that the private sector had an answer for everything. I will say that what he did do though, was to impose a lot of targets on the NHS in terms of things like how quickly you would be seen by a consultant, as part of putting money into the NHS.

The money going from the public purse to commercial companies through PFI is significant, but only a part of NHS costs. There is no getting away from the fact that under this government the NHS has been fragmented as never before; more than 200 ineffective clinical commissioning groups were set up, and hospitals are forced to compete with each other even when cooperation would make more sense. Most importantly the amount of money going into the NHS is less in terms of GDP percentage than is the case in France and Germany. As ever, you get what you pay for.

When you add to that the cut backs to social care which means elderly people cannot get out of hospital even when the hospital has done all it can for them, then the only conclusion one can reach is that this government is happy to see the slow collapse of public services.
Between my finger and my thumb the squat pen rests. I'll dig with it.

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SheepRanger
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Re: Goodbye NHS?

Post by SheepRanger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:41 pm

sparkypark wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:37 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:33 am
sparkypark wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:07 am
Seven years into a Conservative government and the NHS is in financial difficulty. Who would have guessed! It happens every time the Conservatives are in government, but it still comes as a surprise to some people.

Quite simply, our government spends less on health services than the French or the Germans, and, although our system is recognised as being among the most efficient, without money it can't provide the service most of its workers want to give us, and we want to get.
Before you point fingers perhaps you should read those articles I posted again. It is Labour who championed the PFI opportunities and admitted to putting in place poor contracts that are bleeding the NHS dry. But who cares, lets put more money in even if most of it will go to PFI firms. I wouldn't trust Labour with by Bells Whisky bottle of 20p pieces.
I didn't refer to your articles because they are not particularly interesting. As it happens, I don't agree with PFI as a model, but, unfortunately, it fitted with Mr Blair's view that the private sector had an answer for everything. I will say that what he did do though, was to impose a lot of targets on the NHS in terms of things like how quickly you would be seen by a consultant, as part of putting money into the NHS.

The money going from the public purse to commercial companies through PFI is significant, but only a part of NHS costs. There is no getting away from the fact that under this government the NHS has been fragmented as never before; more than 200 ineffective clinical commissioning groups were set up, and hospitals are forced to compete with each other even when cooperation would make more sense. Most importantly the amount of money going into the NHS is less in terms of GDP percentage than is the case in France and Germany. As ever, you get what you pay for.

When you add to that the cut backs to social care which means elderly people cannot get out of hospital even when the hospital has done all it can for them, then the only conclusion one can reach is that this government is happy to see the slow collapse of public services.
Clearly that statistic doesn't take account of what GDP is and how much per head that works out to. But on your data we are third in Europe and ahead of many countries that have reputations of having gold plated social care such as Sweden, Denmark etc. The article below suggests, or implies, that per head we only behind Germany. Unless the author forgot to cover the wide range of other countries that spend more per head, which I doubt. Im not disagreeing with you though, we need to spend more to be the best, but I still think we're right up there with the best. Hopefully, there will be more cash to go around all services when we stop being one of only nine net contributors to the EU that supports 28 members. But that money is looking like being at least another four years from being ours again.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegr ... -call/amp/

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-eu ... ng-2016-12

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