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Re: Franco

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:40 pm
by dm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:36 am
The way every sort of separatist moving is automatically deemed to be far right.
Not sure that's true. In the UK, for example, the SNP, Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru could never be described as far right.

There are many pro-independence movements in Europe but I have no idea where most would be on the political spectrum. However, there is a rise of far right nationalism in countries like France, Holland, Hungary, Greece, Austria, Finland, Sweden and more. For me that's of great concern.

Re: Franco

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:11 am
by SheepRanger
dm wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:40 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:36 am
The way every sort of separatist moving is automatically deemed to be far right.
Not sure that's true. In the UK, for example, the SNP, Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru could never be described as far right.

There are many pro-independence movements in Europe but I have no idea where most would be on the political spectrum. However, there is a rise of far right nationalism in countries like France, Holland, Hungary, Greece, Austria, Finland, Sweden and more. For me that's of great concern.
The pro-EU media class these are far right. The reality is that, like UKIP, they want control of their boarders and a sense of national identity. I do not recall any of these parties abvocating mess deporations and death camps. The only extreme party that Im aware off is Labour with its Marxist leader.

Re: Franco

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:37 pm
by dm
SheepRanger wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:11 am
The pro-EU media class these are far right. The reality is that, like UKIP, they want control of their boarders and a sense of national identity. I do not recall any of these parties abvocating mess deporations and death camps. The only extreme party that Im aware off is Labour with its Marxist leader.
Who do you consider to be the pro-EU Media? I think you'll find most national media are the opposite.

So, Labour are the only extreme political party - I take it you mean in the UK? As you mention UKIP do you feel comfortable with, say, Anne Marie Waters who stood in this year's leadership election?

Re: Franco

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:58 pm
by Lee Gib
dm wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:40 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:36 am
The way every sort of separatist moving is automatically deemed to be far right.
Not sure that's true. In the UK, for example, the SNP, Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru could never be described as far right.

There are many pro-independence movements in Europe but I have no idea where most would be on the political spectrum. However, there is a rise of far right nationalism in countries like France, Holland, Hungary, Greece, Austria, Finland, Sweden and more. For me that's of great concern.
The rise of the right across Europe is down to the left and the EU not addressing the very valid concerns of the ordinary European voter.

I don't think this has a lot to do with Catalonia though.

Re: Franco

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:57 pm
by SheepRanger
dm wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:37 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:11 am
The pro-EU media class these are far right. The reality is that, like UKIP, they want control of their boarders and a sense of national identity. I do not recall any of these parties abvocating mess deporations and death camps. The only extreme party that Im aware off is Labour with its Marxist leader.
Who do you consider to be the pro-EU Media? I think you'll find most national media are the opposite.

So, Labour are the only extreme political party - I take it you mean in the UK? As you mention UKIP do you feel comfortable with, say, Anne Marie Waters who stood in this year's leadership election?
Murdock press was pro-eu
No, but she didnt win, didnt get the votes, not wanted - so whats your point?

Re: Franco

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:48 pm
by dm
SheepRanger wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:57 pm
dm wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:37 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:11 am
The pro-EU media class these are far right. The reality is that, like UKIP, they want control of their boarders and a sense of national identity. I do not recall any of these parties abvocating mess deporations and death camps. The only extreme party that Im aware off is Labour with its Marxist leader.
Who do you consider to be the pro-EU Media? I think you'll find most national media are the opposite.

So, Labour are the only extreme political party - I take it you mean in the UK? As you mention UKIP do you feel comfortable with, say, Anne Marie Waters who stood in this year's leadership election?
Murdock press was pro-eu
No, but she didnt win, didnt get the votes, not wanted - so whats your point?
Actually only The Times was pro-Remain while other press owned by Murdoch were pro-Brexit, as was Murdoch himself. Almost all other right wing press was pro-Brexit.

Waters didn't win. She came second. Doesn't it say something about UKIP's politics that she not only stood but got over 20% of member's votes to be leader? Or is that not extreme enough?

Re: Franco

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:51 pm
by dm
Lee Gib wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:58 pm
dm wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:40 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:36 am
The way every sort of separatist moving is automatically deemed to be far right.
Not sure that's true. In the UK, for example, the SNP, Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru could never be described as far right.

There are many pro-independence movements in Europe but I have no idea where most would be on the political spectrum. However, there is a rise of far right nationalism in countries like France, Holland, Hungary, Greece, Austria, Finland, Sweden and more. For me that's of great concern.
The rise of the right across Europe is down to the left and the EU not addressing the very valid concerns of the ordinary European voter.

I don't think this has a lot to do with Catalonia though.
I think you're probably right on both counts.

Re: Franco

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:27 pm
by SheepRanger
dm wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:48 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:57 pm
dm wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:37 pm


Who do you consider to be the pro-EU Media? I think you'll find most national media are the opposite.

So, Labour are the only extreme political party - I take it you mean in the UK? As you mention UKIP do you feel comfortable with, say, Anne Marie Waters who stood in this year's leadership election?
Murdock press was pro-eu
No, but she didnt win, didnt get the votes, not wanted - so whats your point?
Actually only The Times was pro-Remain while other press owned by Murdoch were pro-Brexit, as was Murdoch himself. Almost all other right wing press was pro-Brexit.

Waters didn't win. She came second. Doesn't it say something about UKIP's politics that she not only stood but got over 20% of member's votes to be leader? Or is that not extreme enough?
Says a lot when Corby has been a euroseptic all his career and now he wants to sleep with the devil. What a man of principle, but there again, he has a soft spot for most terrorist organisations.

Re: Franco

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:03 pm
by dm
You seem genuinely unsettled by Corbyn, Sheepy. But it's quite understandable. It must be hell being a Tory supporter.

Still, there's always Brexit to look forward to eh? It's all going so well.

Re: Franco

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:25 am
by SheepRanger
dm wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:03 pm
You seem genuinely unsettled by Corbyn, Sheepy. But it's quite understandable. It must be hell being a Tory supporter.

Still, there's always Brexit to look forward to eh? It's all going so well.
Now, listen ear my good chap!
I am a brexitieer, I want nothing to do with that cartel and a federal europe. A one fitzall approach will only divide and we do need our own identity. We are Brits, love the Dutch; the boring French etc.

Brexit wont happen in the true sense. ''They'' wont let it happen. See Irish and Greece vote and re-votes under different questions. There is no such thing as democracy, Greece has seen it, Ireland has seen it, and we will soon see that the machine is turning. But,hey, we have the young who love Corbyn. Im just a 50yr old bloke who is soon in the earth and will see the young so the same old shite

Re: Franco

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:15 pm
by dm
SheepRanger wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:25 am
dm wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:03 pm
You seem genuinely unsettled by Corbyn, Sheepy. But it's quite understandable. It must be hell being a Tory supporter.

Still, there's always Brexit to look forward to eh? It's all going so well.
Now, listen ear my good chap!
I am a brexitieer, I want nothing to do with that cartel and a federal europe. A one fitzall approach will only divide and we do need our own identity. We are Brits, love the Dutch; the boring French etc.

Brexit wont happen in the true sense. ''They'' wont let it happen. See Irish and Greece vote and re-votes under different questions. There is no such thing as democracy, Greece has seen it, Ireland has seen it, and we will soon see that the machine is turning. But,hey, we have the young who love Corbyn. Im just a 50yr old bloke who is soon in the earth and will see the young so the same old shite
You might be a little surprised to know that I too did/do not want a politically united Europe and agreed with Cameron on staying in to try and reform the EU.

And Corbyn? I am delighted so many young people have suddenly become politically aware and active after what seemed to be decades of apathy. Much of this is down to Corbyn and the politics he stands for. Old blokes, like you and me, should take note and try to understand why.

Re: Franco

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:16 pm
by SheepRanger
dm wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:15 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:25 am
dm wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:03 pm
You seem genuinely unsettled by Corbyn, Sheepy. But it's quite understandable. It must be hell being a Tory supporter.

Still, there's always Brexit to look forward to eh? It's all going so well.
Now, listen ear my good chap!
I am a brexitieer, I want nothing to do with that cartel and a federal europe. A one fitzall approach will only divide and we do need our own identity. We are Brits, love the Dutch; the boring French etc.

Brexit wont happen in the true sense. ''They'' wont let it happen. See Irish and Greece vote and re-votes under different questions. There is no such thing as democracy, Greece has seen it, Ireland has seen it, and we will soon see that the machine is turning. But,hey, we have the young who love Corbyn. Im just a 50yr old bloke who is soon in the earth and will see the young so the same old shite
You might be a little surprised to know that I too did/do not want a politically united Europe and agreed with Cameron on staying in to try and reform the EU.

And Corbyn? I am delighted so many young people have suddenly become politically aware and active after what seemed to be decades of apathy. Much of this is down to Corbyn and the politics he stands for. Old blokes, like you and me, should take note and try to understand why.
Cameron went to the Eu asking for reform but got very little back. I want out of this nonsense.

As far as corbyn is concerned I think hes has a dodgy past. But I was a Maggies child and got off my @rse and have pushed myself hard all my working life, with the odd breakdown along the way. I fully get the Corbyn mania, the current youth are Fcuked with sky high home prices and education fees etc. I just long for a recession so the the newbies to my town can f.off home and house prices are affordable today as they were in 1990 when I bought my first house. I wouldnt rule out me voting labour again as I did with Blair. These winkers in Govt right now are a joke, to the point where I think they want to hand it off to Labour. That will of course see an anti-europe man of principle give up our chance to be truely sovereign for the youth vote so they can be reassured that their holidays in Ibiza and free mobile roaming in europe are guanteed. Whilst our grandparents puts their lives on the line for our country

Re: Franco

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:46 pm
by dm
You're a funny guy, Sheepy. I enjoy our exchanges.

Re: Franco

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:05 am
by Montag
Remembrance Sunday tomorrow. Makes me wonder what state the UK would be in if we hadn't bankrupted ourselves twice and sacrificed so many in order to defend others.

Re: Franco

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:02 pm
by Damien
Montag wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:05 am
Remembrance Sunday tomorrow. Makes me wonder what state the UK would be in if we hadn't bankrupted ourselves twice and sacrificed so many in order to defend others.
I'll give you that the 2WW was an admirable struggle and sacrifice(even then their was an element of self-interest), but WW1 was purely fought out of Imperial interest and a shocking waste of life.