Cardiff up to twelfth

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by Devonranger » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:22 pm

Sorry West's, I am referring to Barton, SWP, Ferdinand - I know the circumstances pre the start of the season dictated what we got but, those named above were a poor set.

Which clubs sign players based on legacy and foundations? Plenty I would say if you look around and as I said, there needs to be a blend of the here and now and signings with an eye on the future.

Shouldn't your manager have a knowledge and input beyond his starting XI ?

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by westlondonlalala » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Devonranger wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:22 pm
Sorry West's, I am referring to Barton, SWP, Ferdinand - I know the circumstances pre the start of the season dictated what we got but, those named above were a poor set.

Which clubs sign players based on legacy and foundations? Plenty I would say if you look around and as I said, there needs to be a blend of the here and now and signings with an eye on the future.

Shouldn't your manager have a knowledge and input beyond his starting XI ?
Thought Barton was good, he's still playing in the premier league now.

Ultimately we stayed up in the first season back in the big time & were 17th when he got the chop, so not sure the signings were that bad considering he wasn't around to mentor them anyway.

I'm just not sure what the man was supposed to do differently with what he had, imo he is the best I've ever seen & he keeps repeating it time and time again no matter what the situation he gets a team playing.

Anyway all history now, let's hope Ollie can lay foundations & leave a legacy when he probably gets the chop by the middle of March :wink:

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by DAVEf » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:35 pm

Esox Lucius wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:32 pm
Don't forget we had Kyle Walker too. You could see he was real quality from the get go.
He made a big difference in a number of important games.
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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by Devonranger » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:47 pm

With you on that West's though vote of confidence should be out by the end of Feb and foundations for next ten years with linked legacy planning being in place by then is not too much to expect?

Perhaps Holloway might in the end be as close as we get to another Warnock - hope we get a result at Brum as deserved three points in the home fixture.

Almost forgot Tommy Smith as one of his signings that season ....... and Rob Hulse..... 😀

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by westlondonlalala » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Hulse was just misunderstood, he was Ibrahimovic esc at times.

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by 222gers » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Those that say Mr Warnock bought badly at the end of the window that season might like to say which players THEY would have brought in. We had to sell our centre back in order to get a striker in. By the time money was made available we had, I don't know, ten days left or something of that order.

We had to start against Bolton with an unfit and disillusioned AT and a gamble on Dyer which lasted about 5 minutes. Despite these setbacks we attained a league postion higher than any that we have managed since. It appears some don't like Mr Warnock because he is a bit of a Jack the Lad and a ducker and diver (and he didn't answer their emails).

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by Devonranger » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:01 pm

westlondonlalala wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:04 pm
Hulse was just misunderstood, he was Ibrahimovic esc at times.
:lol:

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by Devonranger » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:10 pm

222gers wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:10 pm
Those that say Mr Warnock bought badly at the end of the window that season might like to say which players THEY would have brought in. We had to sell our centre back in order to get a striker in. By the time money was made available we had, I don't know, ten days left or something of that order.

We had to start against Bolton with an unfit and disillusioned AT and a gamble on Dyer which lasted about 5 minutes. Despite these setbacks we attained a league postion higher than any that we have managed since. It appears some don't like Mr Warnock because he is a bit of a Jack the Lad and a ducker and diver (and he didn't answer their emails).
Warnock brought great passion to the game and belief in those players he wanted - whether this translates to players at a higher level we will never know but, Barton and Co didn't seem to take to him, granted that there were questionable attitudes from those players.

I would say that given the amount of cash and wages out laid on Barton and Co in that window, I would find it hard to believe that other options were not available.

Like West's says, it's about what Ollie and the team does from here on in.

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by ZENITH R » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:38 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:19 pm
ZENITH R wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:01 am
When he returned he made it clear he didn't want the job full time, so that was an end to that.
..and then he accepted Rotherham...taking them to safety from last position...
would like to know the details why he did not accept QPR and went to R'ham...
Possibly, he like many QPR fans felt he was badly treated and didn't trust those running the club. I think his wife was quite ill about the time he was with us (the second time) so maybe that had something to do with it, maybe he looked at the squad and though that looks like too much hard work and he didn't fancy it.

As others have said the only person who really knows is Neil Warnock.

The mistake many have made though is to assume all teams and all jobs are equal. Just because he turned us down and accepted the Rotherham job means nothing. Just as you can read nothing into him leaving Rotherham and joining Cardiff. Since leaving QPR (the first time) he has had five jobs at five different clubs - some he was asked to leave and some he chose to leave of his own volition. We would see the QPR manager's job as the most attractive job in football (after playing in the hoops) but the reality is there are more people who don't see it like that than those who do. Why should Neil Warnock be any different.
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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by DAVEf » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:57 am

222gers wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:10 pm
Those that say Mr Warnock bought badly at the end of the window that season might like to say which players THEY would have brought in. We had to sell our centre back in order to get a striker in. By the time money was made available we had, I don't know, ten days left or something of that order.

We had to start against Bolton with an unfit and disillusioned AT and a gamble on Dyer which lasted about 5 minutes. Despite these setbacks we attained a league postion higher than any that we have managed since. It appears some don't like Mr Warnock because he is a bit of a Jack the Lad and a ducker and diver (and he didn't answer their emails).
So NW gets credit for motivating and getting the best from AT --- But when AT is "unfit and disillusioned" it's not NW's fault?

And a "gamble" that fails after the first three minutes of a season might be seen by some (many?) as being something that probably hadn't been properly thought through?

As for character, I wouldn't care if we had The Artful Dodger/Boris Johnson or a Michael Gove/Ed Miliband or a Gok Wan/Judge Rinder --- so long as they got results.
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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by Esox Lucius » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:24 am

I wonder what has happened to those 10,000 (approx.) fans at Stadium MK that were telling him to go just before the sacking? His sacking was building up for a few months before the actual event. Fans were unhappy with his after match "... and it is a privilege to be playing these teams" spiel and a lack of ability to be able to turn it around. He was in charge when all the stars aligned for that one season but the following season, it would be safe to say that the majority of the fans going to games wanted him out.
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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by westlondonlalala » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:33 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:24 am
I wonder what has happened to those 10,000 (approx.) fans at Stadium MK that were telling him to go just before the sacking? His sacking was building up for a few months before the actual event. Fans were unhappy with his after match "... and it is a privilege to be playing these teams" spiel and a lack of ability to be able to turn it around. He was in charge when all the stars aligned for that one season but the following season, it would be safe to say that the majority of the fans going to games wanted him out.
I was at that game, I wasn't shouting to get him out, unhappy yes but not shouting for him to go.

Things did look bleak under him, we looked shot & heading one way, just like we have at times under every other manager since Warnock.

My disagreement on this thread was that I'm baffled how Warnock was supposed to lay foundations or leave a legacy in what was a roalcoaster of a stint incharge.

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by 222gers » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:41 am

DAVEf wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:57 am
222gers wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:10 pm
Those that say Mr Warnock bought badly at the end of the window that season might like to say which players THEY would have brought in. We had to sell our centre back in order to get a striker in. By the time money was made available we had, I don't know, ten days left or something of that order.

We had to start against Bolton with an unfit and disillusioned AT and a gamble on Dyer which lasted about 5 minutes. Despite these setbacks we attained a league postion higher than any that we have managed since. It appears some don't like Mr Warnock because he is a bit of a Jack the Lad and a ducker and diver (and he didn't answer their emails).
So NW gets credit for motivating and getting the best from AT --- But when AT is "unfit and disillusioned" it's not NW's fault?

And a "gamble" that fails after the first three minutes of a season might be seen by some (many?) as being something that probably hadn't been properly thought through?

As for character, I wouldn't care if we had The Artful Dodger/Boris Johnson or a Michael Gove/Ed Miliband or a Gok Wan/Judge Rinder --- so long as they got results.
AT was unfit because he hadn't played pre-season ahead of the move to PSG. He was disillusioned because our owners wrecked the deal at the last minute by suddenly demanding 2 mill more.

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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by ZENITH R » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:29 am

westlondonlalala wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:33 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:24 am
I wonder what has happened to those 10,000 (approx.) fans at Stadium MK that were telling him to go just before the sacking? His sacking was building up for a few months before the actual event. Fans were unhappy with his after match "... and it is a privilege to be playing these teams" spiel and a lack of ability to be able to turn it around. He was in charge when all the stars aligned for that one season but the following season, it would be safe to say that the majority of the fans going to games wanted him out.
I was at that game, I wasn't shouting to get him out, unhappy yes but not shouting for him to go.

Things did look bleak under him, we looked shot & heading one way, just like we have at times under every other manager since Warnock.

My disagreement on this thread was that I'm baffled how Warnock was supposed to lay foundations or leave a legacy in what was a roalcoaster of a stint incharge.
And that's why he got the chop! You can't use the failure of those who followed him into the manager's job as justification for not sacking him. At the time things to use your phraseology "looked bleak under him, we looked shot and heading one way." No surprise TF turned to Mark Hughes. The fact he turned out to be a disaster is a totally different matter and one TF could not have foreseen. Most Stoke fans would say overall Hughes has been a success up there. He has bought well, stabilized the club after a long time manger left and generally done OK. In fact what most of us would have wanted when he arrived at QPR.
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Re: Cardiff up to twelfth

Post by Bear-Grills » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:02 am

ZENITH R wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:29 am
westlondonlalala wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:33 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:24 am
I wonder what has happened to those 10,000 (approx.) fans at Stadium MK that were telling him to go just before the sacking? His sacking was building up for a few months before the actual event. Fans were unhappy with his after match "... and it is a privilege to be playing these teams" spiel and a lack of ability to be able to turn it around. He was in charge when all the stars aligned for that one season but the following season, it would be safe to say that the majority of the fans going to games wanted him out.
I was at that game, I wasn't shouting to get him out, unhappy yes but not shouting for him to go.

Things did look bleak under him, we looked shot & heading one way, just like we have at times under every other manager since Warnock.

My disagreement on this thread was that I'm baffled how Warnock was supposed to lay foundations or leave a legacy in what was a roalcoaster of a stint incharge.
And that's why he got the chop! You can't use the failure of those who followed him into the manager's job as justification for not sacking him. At the time things to use your phraseology "looked bleak under him, we looked shot and heading one way." No surprise TF turned to Mark Hughes. The fact he turned out to be a disaster is a totally different matter and one TF could not have foreseen. Most Stoke fans would say overall Hughes has been a success up there. He has bought well, stabilized the club after a long time manger left and generally done OK. In fact what most of us would have wanted when he arrived at QPR.
Why do you reckon Hughes made a go of it at Stoke but not here - I've often wondered that. He didn't get rid of Joorbachian did he?
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