The case for the defence

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dm
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The case for the defence

Post by dm » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:55 am

Like most of us, I've accepted having a leaky defence for watching attractive attacking football. "We'll score more than you" is certainly entertaining.

But the fact we have now conceded 41 goals in 20 games under Mark Warburton, with 27 of those goals against coming at home, together with us being the only club yet to keep a clean sheet is changing my mind.

As much as I appreciate the way Warburton wants to play the game, he has to make changes now. Not only are the fans losing patience in the plan but I fear the players may lose confidence in the manager.

This is not a call the replace the manager.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by Giorgio » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:41 am

..well, conceding 2 goals every match would not be a problem if we can score 2 or more every match.
Now that is not happening. We had a good scoring average but that has come to a halt recently.
What I liked early this season was the continuous movement up front that created chances and problems to the oppositions.
In the last few matches nobody is moving up front. Yesterday evening the back 4 kept passing the ball waiting for something to happen
that reminding me of our tactics in the previous seasons when the tactics was: long ball to Smith. Awful tactics and Smith is no more there.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by QPR_John » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:48 am

Giorgio wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:41 am
..well, conceding 2 goals every match would not be a problem if we can score 2 or more every match.
Now that is not happening. We had a good scoring average but that has come to a halt recently.
What I liked early this season was the continuous movement up front that created chances and problems to the oppositions.
In the last few matches nobody is moving up front. Yesterday evening the back 4 kept passing the ball waiting for something to happen
that reminding me of our tactics in the previous seasons when the tactics was: long ball to Smith. Awful tactics and Smith is no more there.
In theory yes but it never works in practice. Its been said many times but well worth repeating top teams are built on their defence.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by Giorgio » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:01 am

QPR_John wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:48 am
In theory yes but it never works in practice. Its been said many times but well worth repeating top teams are built on their defence.
..I know it very well...I remember an Italian football manager in the past telling that building a strong team is like building a strong house.
It must be started from the basement (the keeper and the defense)...and then go up...
if the foundation is strong the entire building will be strong....

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by John in Hemel » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:14 am

With Wallace suspended and barbet injured surely Masterson must come into the reckoning?
If not now when?

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by dm » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:28 am

John in Hemel wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:14 am
With Wallace suspended and barbet injured surely Masterson must come into the reckoning?
If not now when?
In Warburton's Forest pre-match interview he said Barbet's is close to a return so perhaps he'll make Saturday. Masterson has also been injured but I don't know when he returns.

In any event a back four with Leistner and Hall as CBs is viable.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by jimjams » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:52 am

Just want to say, before anyone makes the comparison, that Kevin Keegan's Newcastle were actually pretty good defensively, and not that special at scoring.
thanks

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:25 pm

John in Hemel wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:14 am
With Wallace suspended and barbet injured surely Masterson must come into the reckoning?
If not now when?
He was signed as a development player, and I'm pretty sure Warburton said a few weeks ago that he's not ready for the first team.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:26 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:01 am
QPR_John wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:48 am
In theory yes but it never works in practice. Its been said many times but well worth repeating top teams are built on their defence.
..I know it very well...I remember an Italian football manager in the past telling that building a strong team is like building a strong house.
It must be started from the basement (the keeper and the defense)...and then go up...
if the foundation is strong the entire building will be strong....
If we wanted a manager who builds from the back, we've gone for the wrong man. That's not what Warburton does.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by Rbee » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:40 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:25 pm
John in Hemel wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:14 am
With Wallace suspended and barbet injured surely Masterson must come into the reckoning?
If not now when?
He was signed as a development player, and I'm pretty sure Warburton said a few weeks ago that he's not ready for the first team.
Which is strange as Liverpool had him on the bench for a Champions League Quarter Final and Merseyside Derby.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:54 pm

Rbee wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:40 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:25 pm
John in Hemel wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:14 am
With Wallace suspended and barbet injured surely Masterson must come into the reckoning?
If not now when?
He was signed as a development player, and I'm pretty sure Warburton said a few weeks ago that he's not ready for the first team.
Which is strange as Liverpool had him on the bench for a Champions League Quarter Final and Merseyside Derby.
Both of those were within three days of each other over 18 months ago. Maybe they had an injury crisis, or he went backwards in his development after that. Either way, he never played any first team football for Liverpool.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by dm » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:38 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:54 pm
Rbee wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:40 pm
UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:25 pm


He was signed as a development player, and I'm pretty sure Warburton said a few weeks ago that he's not ready for the first team.
Which is strange as Liverpool had him on the bench for a Champions League Quarter Final and Merseyside Derby.
Both of those were within three days of each other over 18 months ago. Maybe they had an injury crisis, or he went backwards in his development after that. Either way, he never played any first team football for Liverpool.
Masterson played in first team pre-season games, was given a first team squad number and continues to be listed as a first team squad member on the website. It looks like Warburton has reassessed him somewhat but still believes he can develop and make a contribution to the first team this season.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by Giorgio » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:29 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:26 pm
If we wanted a manager who builds from the back, we've gone for the wrong man. That's not what Warburton does.
...I think that is pretty clear by now....anyway...if you know that the squad is going to concede you have to make a front line that can
score 3 goals every match as an average, to compensate the weak defense....

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by Damien » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:29 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:26 pm
Giorgio wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:01 am
QPR_John wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:48 am
In theory yes but it never works in practice. Its been said many times but well worth repeating top teams are built on their defence.
..I know it very well...I remember an Italian football manager in the past telling that building a strong team is like building a strong house.
It must be started from the basement (the keeper and the defense)...and then go up...
if the foundation is strong the entire building will be strong....
If we wanted a manager who builds from the back, we've gone for the wrong man. That's not what Warburton does.
Then we are in trouble.

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Re: The case for the defence

Post by Greyhound » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:46 pm

We play out from the back now - get over it. Watching the Premier League last weekend, every single team takes what would once have been considered crazy risks to pass the ball to the half-way line. Even the top four teams were making howlers. We are so far behind other teams at our level that a bit of pain is inevitable, but we need to go through it.

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