Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Serious QPR topics only. Posted images may be deleted. Off-topic or thread hijacking posts will be moved/removed and posters disallowed access to this forum. NO TICKET RELATED POSTS. ALL TICKET RELATED POSTS WILL BE DELETED. NO EXCEPTIONS. Please put ticket related posts in the right place only.

Moderators: nige101uk, willesdenr, qprdotorgadmin, ZENITH R, Virginia_R

Post Reply
User avatar
ZENITH R
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9155
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 pm
Location: North Derbyshire

Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by ZENITH R » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:18 am

We have played 16 games this season in all competitions and are yet to keep a clean sheet. Yes, we've not had much luck, and some of the six penalties we have conceded have been soft, if not scandalously poor decisions by the referee. However, we are very open at the back, teams are scoring simple goals against us, not worldies or great team goals, we are making it easy for them.

Is it time to bring in someone to help with the defence? I recall Harry Redknapp had a similar problem, and brought in Steve MacLaren. Almost overnight things improved at the back, and right up until he left to become manager of Derby, we became a team that was hard to beat.

Overall, I love what Mark Warburton has done with the team, I'm loving the positivity, the football, the passing and movement, but clearly there is a problem at the back that has not/ and is not being addressed.

If we sort that out, I think this team could really go places.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is optional.

User avatar
Esox Lucius
dot.org vip
dot.org vip
Posts: 21147
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: Banbury, Oxon.

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:46 am

This team is already going places. We are 8th currently, think about that, 8th, not 18th.
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

User avatar
n22hoop
Level 3 dot.orger
Level 3 dot.orger
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:09 am
Location: bounds green

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by n22hoop » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:51 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:46 am
This team is already going places. We are 8th currently, think about that, 8th, not 18th.
That suggests we should know our place. Why settle for being happy with 8th? We'd be top of the league with a meaner defence.
"Football is the love of form. A spectacle that scarcely leaves a trace in the memory and does not enrich or impoverish knowledge. This is its appeal : it is exciting and empty." Mario Vargas Llosa

User avatar
UxbridgeR
dot.org legend
dot.org legend
Posts: 10078
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by UxbridgeR » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:57 am

n22hoop wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:51 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:46 am
This team is already going places. We are 8th currently, think about that, 8th, not 18th.
That suggests we should know our place. Why settle for being happy with 8th? We'd be top of the league with a meaner defence.
It's unlikely to be that simple. We'd have to sacrifice creativity to be more solid defensively.
Are headphones getting bigger, or are idiots getting smaller ?

User avatar
dm
dot.org player kit 2007
dot.org player kit 2007
Posts: 13333
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Just over the border...

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by dm » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:48 am

I might be wrong but under SMc weren't Eustace and/or Gardiner the defensive coaches?

User avatar
Esox Lucius
dot.org vip
dot.org vip
Posts: 21147
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: Banbury, Oxon.

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by Esox Lucius » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:10 am

UxbridgeR wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:57 am
n22hoop wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:51 am
Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:46 am
This team is already going places. We are 8th currently, think about that, 8th, not 18th.
That suggests we should know our place. Why settle for being happy with 8th? We'd be top of the league with a meaner defence.
It's unlikely to be that simple. We'd have to sacrifice creativity to be more solid defensively.
Exactly this, I haven't been this happy going to games for nearly ten years and if we ship goals and lose a few along the way to maintain our gung ho approach to football then I'm happy. Clean sheets are over rated, goals are much more fun.
It's not the despair that will kill you, it's the hope.

User avatar
Montag
Level 4 dot.orger
Level 4 dot.orger
Posts: 4625
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by Montag » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:25 am

As I see it, it comes down to defenders and midfielders picking up their man when we don't have the ball. Too often too much space is given. Yesterday the only lapse that cost us was the first goal. It's more about concentration than tactics or technique. But Esox is right. We're still in a good spot compared to where we might've been. Bring on Dirty Leeds.
"Go, muster men: My council is my shield ; We must be brief, when traitors brave the field."
Richard III, Act IV, W. Shakespeare

QPR_John
Level 5 dot.orger
Level 5 dot.orger
Posts: 6463
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:35 pm
Location: Reading

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by QPR_John » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:55 am

Esox Lucius wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:10 am
UxbridgeR wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:57 am
n22hoop wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:51 am


That suggests we should know our place. Why settle for being happy with 8th? We'd be top of the league with a meaner defence.
It's unlikely to be that simple. We'd have to sacrifice creativity to be more solid defensively.
Exactly this, I haven't been this happy going to games for nearly ten years and if we ship goals and lose a few along the way to maintain our gung ho approach to football then I'm happy. Clean sheets are over rated, goals are much more fun.
Of course goals are much more fun but not if the opposition score more.

User avatar
Systemsguy
Level 5 dot.orger
Level 5 dot.orger
Posts: 5401
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:19 pm

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by Systemsguy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:19 pm

I remember reading an article from the old club secretary Ron Jones about the club's philosophy at the time of our first rise to the first division that we might win 5 - 4 but would concentrate on the goals we didn't score rather than the goals we conceded.... I liked that

I want us to win playing good football but you can't win with having a clown in charge in the middle ( whose nickname is apparently chuckles! )
2019/2020.... Keep Calm, no matter the season, we'll follow our team.....

Image

User avatar
ZENITH R
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9155
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 pm
Location: North Derbyshire

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by ZENITH R » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:24 pm

Systemsguy wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:19 pm
I remember reading an article from the old club secretary Ron Jones about the club's philosophy at the time of our first rise to the first division that we might win 5 - 4 but would concentrate on the goals we didn't score rather than the goals we conceded.... I liked that

I want us to win playing good football but you can't win with having a clown in charge in the middle ( whose nickname is apparently chuckles! )
Was Ron Jones secretary before of after Ron Phillips?

:wink:
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is optional.

User avatar
Systemsguy
Level 5 dot.orger
Level 5 dot.orger
Posts: 5401
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:19 pm

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by Systemsguy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:40 pm

Absolutely right it was Ron Phillips!

Age is finally catching up on me..... :lol:
2019/2020.... Keep Calm, no matter the season, we'll follow our team.....

Image

User avatar
LP
Level 3 dot.orger
Level 3 dot.orger
Posts: 1476
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:33 am
Contact:

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by LP » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:47 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:57 am
It's unlikely to be that simple. We'd have to sacrifice creativity to be more solid defensively.
Mind if I disagree, old chap? While Manning / Rangel (moreso Kane) do pick up more attacking duties, Leistner/Barbet/Hall tend not to - I think a meaner, more canny CB pairing or threesome (ooh-er) wouldn't mean compromising in attack.

A consistent, commanding CB would be my preference - but a specific defensive coach could be just what we need to give things that tweak.

User avatar
ZENITH R
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9155
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 pm
Location: North Derbyshire

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by ZENITH R » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:03 pm

My thoughts in the original post were that we are not getting the basics right. I've seen the same players - particularly Leistner and Hall defend very well. At the moment they are not marking effectively, losing their man, ball watching, stuff you see on the park on a Sunday morning. This is costing us goals. Something is not right, whether that be the tactics, the messages they are being given, or something in training.

I just wondered if we should look to get someone in to help them sort this out. They are all a lot better than the goals against column (and no clean sheets) suggests.

I think it needs a bit of tweaking, that's all.

Terry Venables (one of the most effective QPR managers I have seen in my time watching the R's) said: "You build from the back". That should not necessarily mean sacrificing creativity or goals. After all, El Tel's team got to the FA Cup Final, and I seem to recall Stainrod and Allen scoring plenty of goals.
Saturday 9th November 1968: QPR V Burnley in the First Division - I saw the Hoops for the first time and my obsession began!

Remember:
Growing old is inevitable.
Growing up is optional.

User avatar
Giorgio
dotorgsponsor
dotorgsponsor
Posts: 4620
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by Giorgio » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:29 pm

Well, if I am not wrong we got Wallace that is a left back....and we are playing Manning, who's not a left back in that position...
he is doing well, but sometimes he leaves the door opened...so what about putting Wallace in...and move Manning up the left side in a more attacking position...??

User avatar
SM
dot.org legend
dot.org legend
Posts: 15981
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:35 pm
Location: Isle of Wight
Contact:

Re: Time to bring in a defensive coach?

Post by SM » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:00 pm

We were discussing this last night. Individually, I don’t think it’s a bad back line at all.

Manning has arguably been our player of the season, BFG is the best defender at the club IMO, Barbet & Hall are both good defenders at this level, as are Rangel & Kane.

We’ve been on the end of some quite horrific refereeing decisions, but we don’t do the basics well enough at all. And we’re not learning either. I don’t know how we address it, but something needs to change.
Isle Of Wight R'ssssssssss

Post Reply