Accounts - May 2017

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Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:32 am

Are available below if anyone wants to pay £3 to read them.

Have they been posted on another site?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by deadendjob » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:23 am

Pay for them? They're all listed HERE.

I don't really know what I'm looking for, but they look like they're in a considerably better position then when I remember looking at them previously. There's definitely been a decrease from the loss from 2016.
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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:03 am

SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:32 am
Are available below if anyone wants to pay £3 to read them.

Have they been posted on another site?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history
Link doesn't work. Can you copy and paste it?

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by UxbridgeR » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:20 am

I've only had a brief look, but they look like good news overall.

Turnover up £6M, primarily due to an increase in broadcasting rights. We had quite a few live TV games last year, but the strategic report also talks about higher parachute income, as a result of the new PL deal with Sky. This was news to me, as I thought the parachute money was fixed. Gate receipts were down £0.3M

The overall wage bill came down by £10M, despite very little change in the headcount. However this was offset by a lower profit on player sales (7.3M vs 12.6M)

A total loss for the year of £6.5M, down from £11M in 2015-16.

This means that as long as our losses for this year are below £21.5M, we should be within the FFP guidelines over the 3 year period. They could well be higher than last year's, as there was a significant (around £10M) drop in the parachute money, but with the players we've moved on, and only Scowen coming in, I'd be very surprised if we weren't OK.

No mean feat from where we were, so credit is due to Lee Hoos and the board for finally steadying the ship.
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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:28 am

UxbridgeR wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:20 am
I've only had a brief look, but they look like good news overall.

Turnover up £6M, primarily due to an increase in broadcasting rights. We had quite a few live TV games last year, but the strategic report also talks about higher parachute income, as a result of the new PL deal with Sky. This was news to me, as I thought the parachute money was fixed. Gate receipts were down £0.3M

The overall wage bill came down by £10M, despite very little change in the headcount. However this was offset by a lower profit on player sales (7.3M vs 12.6M)

A total loss for the year of £6.5M, down from £11M in 2015-16.

This means that as long as our losses for this year are below £21.5M, we should be within the FFP guidelines over the 3 year period. They could well be higher than last year's, as there was a significant (around £10M) drop in the parachute money, but with the players we've moved on, and only Scowen coming in, I'd be very surprised if we weren't OK.

No mean feat from where we were, so credit is due to Lee Hoos and the board for finally steadying the ship.
Great update thanks and good news.

What's the current debt position after the Board's recent write off. Must be nudging back to the £15-20m area?

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by 222gers » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:30 am

UxbridgeR wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:20 am
I've only had a brief look, but they look like good news overall.

Turnover up £6M, primarily due to an increase in broadcasting rights. We had quite a few live TV games last year, but the strategic report also talks about higher parachute income, as a result of the new PL deal with Sky. This was news to me, as I thought the parachute money was fixed. Gate receipts were down £0.3M

The overall wage bill came down by £10M, despite very little change in the headcount. However this was offset by a lower profit on player sales (7.3M vs 12.6M)

A total loss for the year of £6.5M, down from £11M in 2015-16.

This means that as long as our losses for this year are below £21.5M, we should be within the FFP guidelines over the 3 year period. They could well be higher than last year's, as there was a significant (around £10M) drop in the parachute money, but with the players we've moved on, and only Scowen coming in, I'd be very surprised if we weren't OK.

No mean feat from where we were, so credit is due to Lee Hoos and the board for finally steadying the ship.
Thanks for that.....it does look as if the parsimonious approach has steadied the ship. Surely the league will look on us in a more favourable fashion and adopt a more sensible policy toward us. Maybe also the fans that were screaming at the club to buy a couple of strikers will see sense. It looks like we are going to stay up and we have a few good prospects among the younger players. Bring on Sunderland !

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by deadendjob » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:06 pm

UxbridgeR wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:20 am
I've only had a brief look, but they look like good news overall.

Turnover up £6M, primarily due to an increase in broadcasting rights. We had quite a few live TV games last year, but the strategic report also talks about higher parachute income, as a result of the new PL deal with Sky. This was news to me, as I thought the parachute money was fixed. Gate receipts were down £0.3M

The overall wage bill came down by £10M, despite very little change in the headcount. However this was offset by a lower profit on player sales (7.3M vs 12.6M)

A total loss for the year of £6.5M, down from £11M in 2015-16.

This means that as long as our losses for this year are below £21.5M, we should be within the FFP guidelines over the 3 year period. They could well be higher than last year's, as there was a significant (around £10M) drop in the parachute money, but with the players we've moved on, and only Scowen coming in, I'd be very surprised if we weren't OK.

No mean feat from where we were, so credit is due to Lee Hoos and the board for finally steadying the ship.
Cheers for putting that into English
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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:12 pm

I have now had a chance to read the report and it states the Board are prepared to finance the club in the long term. I am not an accountant but here's another summary to add to that above.

But breaking down the figures we have two loans to a firm called 'Total Soccer Growth Std Bhd' for a total amount of £46m which is he to be paid by 31 May 2018. £30m is financed at 1% interest per month and £16m charged a 2% per month. The interest charged so far amounts to £7.5m but has not been paid but added to overall debt.

The cutrent debt stands at £65m and total losses to date, which can be offset against any future profits, stands at £313m.

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by Devonranger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:14 pm

Just looking on the Championship section of BBC Sport website, headlines about Cardiff's ongoing debt, Forest converting £40 million debt and Wolves showing a £23 million loss - all seemingly deemed acceptable under GDP by the Football League- how does that work then with all these teams making multiple signings and continuing to do so?

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:29 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:12 pm
I have now had a chance to read the report and it states the Board are prepared to finance the club in the long term. I am not an accountant but here's another summary to add to that above.

But breaking down the figures we have two loans to a firm called 'Total Soccer Growth Std Bhd' for a total amount of £46m which is he to be paid by 31 May 2018. £30m is financed at 1% interest per month and £16m charged a 2% per month. The interest charged so far amounts to £7.5m but has not been paid but added to overall debt.

The cutrent debt stands at £65m and total losses to date, which can be offset against any future profits, stands at £313m.
Total Soccer Growth Std Bhd is owned by Ruben Gnanalingam which owns 33% of the club. Clearly the club has accepted £30m from him at 12% a year and £16m at 24% a year interest to keep the club going. I guess Ruben wanted thst level of return due to the considerable risk to his money by investing in Qpr.

It all makes the £10m ABC loan at 10% (I think) appear quite cheap
.

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by UxbridgeR » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:43 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:29 pm
SheepRanger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:12 pm
I have now had a chance to read the report and it states the Board are prepared to finance the club in the long term. I am not an accountant but here's another summary to add to that above.

But breaking down the figures we have two loans to a firm called 'Total Soccer Growth Std Bhd' for a total amount of £46m which is he to be paid by 31 May 2018. £30m is financed at 1% interest per month and £16m charged a 2% per month. The interest charged so far amounts to £7.5m but has not been paid but added to overall debt.

The cutrent debt stands at £65m and total losses to date, which can be offset against any future profits, stands at £313m.
Total Soccer Growth Std Bhd is owned by Ruben Gnanalingam which owns 33% of the club. Clearly the club has accepted £30m from him at 12% a year and £16m at 24% a year interest to keep the club going. I guess Ruben wanted thst level of return due to the considerable risk to his money by investing in Qpr.

It all makes the £10m ABC loan at 10% (I think) appear quite cheap
.
I'm not sure where you're getting the 33% from. Total Soocer Growth are now the majority shareholder at 51%.

As for the interest rates on the loan(s), I think Hoos has made the point before at fans forums that if anyone has a better option, they're more than welcome to step up and present it. The rates are certainly high, but since the interest is being capitalised, the club isn't really suffering as a result, in the way it would be if the interest were payable to a bank.
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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by the big IP » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:56 pm

Shame this didn't happen 5 years ago.

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:46 am

Yes Ux, I can see now that the current position is 51% which I assume has grown from the capitalisation of the interest being converted into shares.

It would seem that two things are going to happen:

- If we get promoted half the new sky money will be going to Ruben to pay off the £46m debt which is due for refinancing this May
- If we don't get promoted Tony's and the Mittal's shareholding will be diluted to the point where their holdings will become insignificant.

Fair play to Ruben for coming up with the cash to bail out Tony's mistakes. I'm sure that capitalisation of future interest into shared will see his holding increase and may get him over 90% to enforce compulsory acquision and boot the other lot out.

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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by UxbridgeR » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:52 pm

SheepRanger wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:46 am
Yes Ux, I can see now that the current position is 51% which I assume has grown from the capitalisation of the interest being converted into shares.

It would seem that two things are going to happen:

- If we get promoted half the new sky money will be going to Ruben to pay off the £46m debt which is due for refinancing this May
- If we don't get promoted Tony's and the Mittal's shareholding will be diluted to the point where their holdings will become insignificant.

Fair play to Ruben for coming up with the cash to bail out Tony's mistakes. I'm sure that capitalisation of future interest into shared will see his holding increase and may get him over 90% to enforce compulsory acquision and boot the other lot out.
It is interesting. At barely 3.5%, the Mittals' holdings are close to insignificant as it is. I guess you're right that if we continue in the current vein, Fernandes' share will gradually be diluted, but that will take quite a time I would have thought.

If we were to get promoted, who knows what would happen. Pocketing a big chunk of the money would be pretty shortsighted, as if you don't strengthen, you're very likely to go straight back down again. Although the PL revenues are huge and the majority of clubs now make a profit, most of those profits are in single figures, as wages and transfer fees are also massively inflated. If any of these guys are still hoping to get more than a tiny fraction of their money back, they're going to have play the long game.
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Re: Accounts - May 2017

Post by SheepRanger » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:10 pm

We know how difficult it is to compete in the premier even by spending big to give it a shot. If I was Ruben I would relieve the club of the debt and get hid money back. Then use the line that this squad of players got us there and they should be given the opportunity to keep us there. That is a valid approach and if the team has bonded then why not go down that route. Without splashing out, one season in the prem and the parachute payments that would follow would probably amount to £200m and that I would say that is a long term view for a club of our size. A short term view is gambling trying to stay there and we all know those dangers. It will be interesting to see Ruben"s shareholding next season, at 12-24% interest on his loans I wouldn't be surprised to his holding over 60% in the next accounts.

But let's stay in the championship this season before we get ahead of ourselves!

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